littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Mar 24, 2021 15:52:46 GMT
You are suggesting the BBC is efficient? Effecient at giving southern lefties in a big fat pay packet they don't deserve. Creating local radio stations which are unnecessary and are designed to reduce and remove competition. With the final outcome to be the news from and only from the BBC. Compare the cost of the BBC with the costs of the various commercial networks, then consider the far smaller scope of those networks. The BBC is extraordinarily efficient, relative. Sky's annual profit alone is more than half the BBC's total licence revenue, and their total revenue is more than 3x the BBC's. The portion of the licence fee that goes to BBC TV is about the same as the cheapest Netflix sub. The company behind Classic FM, Heart, LBC and Capital radio have revenue about twice the total BBC radio expenditure... yet they still make an annual loss of more than twice the total cost of Radio 4, the single most expensive BBC radio channel. As for pay... welcome to the market value of "talent". If the BBC didn't pay those figures, somebody else would, and the people would simply move. It's happened many times in the past, with presenters and programmes going from the Beeb to commercial over money. You like the BBC because it shares your views. Fair enough. But why should I have to pay the BBC in order to watch other channels when it does not represent my views? If it is so efficient why can't it run on commercial lines like everyone else?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 24, 2021 16:05:28 GMT
Compare the cost of the BBC with the costs of the various commercial networks, then consider the far smaller scope of those networks. The BBC is extraordinarily efficient, relative. Sky's annual profit alone is more than half the BBC's total licence revenue, and their total revenue is more than 3x the BBC's. The portion of the licence fee that goes to BBC TV is about the same as the cheapest Netflix sub. The company behind Classic FM, Heart, LBC and Capital radio have revenue about twice the total BBC radio expenditure... yet they still make an annual loss of more than twice the total cost of Radio 4, the single most expensive BBC radio channel. As for pay... welcome to the market value of "talent". If the BBC didn't pay those figures, somebody else would, and the people would simply move. It's happened many times in the past, with presenters and programmes going from the Beeb to commercial over money. You like the BBC because it shares your views. Fair enough. No, I like the BBC because it's almost unique in being independent and neutral. The left claim it isn't. The right claim it isn't. When it does trip over, it's because it tries too hard to be independent and neutral - and gives too much airtime to the lunatic fringe. Why on earth would you only want echo-chambers that reinforce your prejudices and preconceptions...? (GB News launches soon. Do enjoy.) But the simple answer is - because it's the law of the land, and has been for nearly a century. The UK's far from unique in requiring a tv licence - it's not even the most expensive in Europe, by quite a large chunk. We don't have a radio licence, like many countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence#Television_licences_around_the_worldAnd you don't need a TV licence to watch them on catch-up anyway, only their live broadcasts. Precisely because the lack of a commercial imperative is how it can be independent and neutral.
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on Mar 24, 2021 16:28:55 GMT
You like the BBC because it shares your views. Fair enough. No, I like the BBC because it's almost unique in being independent and neutral. The left claim it isn't. The right claim it isn't. When it does trip over, it's because it tries too hard to be independent and neutral - and gives too much airtime to the lunatic fringe. Why on earth would you only want echo-chambers that reinforce your prejudices and preconceptions...? (GB News launches soon. Do enjoy.) But the simple answer is - because it's the law of the land, and has been for nearly a century. The UK's far from unique in requiring a tv licence - it's not even the most expensive in Europe, by quite a large chunk. We don't have a radio licence, like many countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence#Television_licences_around_the_worldAnd you don't need a TV licence to watch them on catch-up anyway, only their live broadcasts. Precisely because the lack of a commercial imperative is how it can be independent and neutral. My God, I've entered an alien world; I'm feeling dizzy, queasy, nauseous even.I'm about to say something that in my life I never,ever thought I'd say...... ..................I ......think......I agree.... with.. adrianc
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 24, 2021 16:37:29 GMT
Welcome to truth and reality. Most people get here sooner or later...
<grin>
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Mar 24, 2021 16:47:38 GMT
You like the BBC because it shares your views. Fair enough. No, I like the BBC because it's almost unique in being independent and neutral. The left claim it isn't. The right claim it isn't. When it does trip over, it's because it tries too hard to be independent and neutral - and gives too much airtime to the lunatic fringe. Why on earth would you only want echo-chambers that reinforce your prejudices and preconceptions...? (GB News launches soon. Do enjoy.) But the simple answer is - because it's the law of the land, and has been for nearly a century. The UK's far from unique in requiring a tv licence - it's not even the most expensive in Europe, by quite a large chunk. We don't have a radio licence, like many countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence#Television_licences_around_the_worldAnd you don't need a TV licence to watch them on catch-up anyway, only their live broadcasts. You need a TV licence to watch iplayer including for catch up
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 24, 2021 16:55:21 GMT
And you don't need a TV licence to watch them on catch-up anyway, only their live broadcasts. You need a TV licence to watch iplayer including for catch up But not for other channels, which is what littleoldlady was asking about...
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corto
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Post by corto on Mar 24, 2021 16:56:27 GMT
I Germany you pay TV fees by default. I don't think you can opt out.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 24, 2021 16:57:24 GMT
No, I like the BBC because it's almost unique in being independent and neutral. The left claim it isn't. The right claim it isn't. When it does trip over, it's because it tries too hard to be independent and neutral - and gives too much airtime to the lunatic fringe. It isn't independent as it is a state broadcaster. It is run by the director general day to day and he can be replaced at any time by the Chairman. The Chairman is appointed by the Culture Secretary - i.e. the Government. There are pleanty of other "independent" newspapers and channels where the owner claims to have no influence over the content. I'm thinking for example the Murdoch press (The Sun has a different view to the The Times) And please don't suggest I'm comparing the BBC with the Murdoch press. I am not - only that one narrow aspect that they have in common which is arms-length ownership.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 24, 2021 17:07:20 GMT
No, I like the BBC because it's almost unique in being independent and neutral. The left claim it isn't. The right claim it isn't. When it does trip over, it's because it tries too hard to be independent and neutral - and gives too much airtime to the lunatic fringe. It isn't independent as it is a state broadcaster. It is run by the director general day to day and he can be replaced at any time by the Chairman. The Chairman is appointed by the Culture Secretary - i.e. the Government. The BBC's Charter and Agreement explicitly state and guarantee that it is politically independent of the government of the day... www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/governance/regulatory_framework/charter_agreement.html
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Mar 24, 2021 17:34:14 GMT
It isn't independent as it is a state broadcaster. It is run by the director general day to day and he can be replaced at any time by the Chairman. The Chairman is appointed by the Culture Secretary - i.e. the Government. The BBC's Charter and Agreement explicitly state and guarantee that it is politically independent of the government of the day... www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/governance/regulatory_framework/charter_agreement.htmlYes and Lebedev will tell you that his paper The Evening Standard has editorial independence too. Do you agree with me that the Chairman of the BBC is appointed by Government and that he/she can replace the Director-General whenever it wants?
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Mar 24, 2021 17:51:29 GMT
You like the BBC because it shares your views. Fair enough. No, I like the BBC because it's almost unique in being independent and neutral. Anyone who can say that with a straight face comes from the same pool as the majority of BBC staff.
The left claim it isn't. The right claim it isn't. When it does trip over, it's because it tries too hard to be independent and neutral - and gives too much airtime to the lunatic fringe. The lunatic fringe being anyone you don't agree with.Why on earth would you only want echo-chambers that reinforce your prejudices and preconceptions...? (GB News launches soon. Do enjoy.) But that's exactly why you like the BBC. On the rare occasion that there's something you don't like it's OK, it's just them pandering to the lunatic fringe.But the simple answer is - because it's the law of the land, and has been for nearly a century. That's why I pay for a license - even though, being over 75, they say they will not prosecute me if I don't. It is permitted to disagree with a law you know.The UK's far from unique in requiring a tv licence - it's not even the most expensive in Europe, by quite a large chunk. We don't have a radio licence, like many countries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence#Television_licences_around_the_worldFor historic reasons. When radio, and then TV, were invented there was no market for broadcast reception and no technology to charge any other way. Today there is no reason for it.Precisely because the lack of a commercial imperative is how it can be independent and neutral. Change "can" to "could" and I will agree with you (for possibly the first time)
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 24, 2021 17:56:01 GMT
The lunatic fringe being anyone you don't agree with. No, the lunatic fringe like giving equal airtime in a debate on climate change to scientists and Nigel Lawson. Ah, the over-75 licence shenanigans... Question for you. No cheating. Who was it who got rid of the free licence for over-75s not in receipt of pension credit?
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Mar 25, 2021 8:49:31 GMT
Ah, the over-75 licence shenanigans... Question for you. No cheating. Who was it who got rid of the free licence for over-75s not in receipt of pension credit? So I haven't cheated and therefore might be wrong, but my recollection is that the government said they would not pay for it and so the BBC reinstated the fee against the government's wishes. Now a committee of MPs have said that the licence fee will have to remain because of a lack of broadband infrastructure. Clearly they have never heard of a set top box as used by Sky for several decades.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 25, 2021 9:04:30 GMT
Ah, the over-75 licence shenanigans... Question for you. No cheating. Who was it who got rid of the free licence for over-75s not in receipt of pension credit? So I haven't cheated and therefore might be wrong, but my recollection is that the government said they would not pay for it and so the BBC reinstated the fee against the government's wishes. Close, but no banana. The government said they were going to stop paying for free licences for ALL over 75s, despite having paid for it for many years... but the BBC were free to pay for it themselves if they wished. Even the Dept of Culture, Media and Sport said the BBC couldn't afford it. It would have cost the BBC about £750m/year, out of the total £3.5bn revenue - effectively a 20+% cut in revenue. commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04955/"2015 funding deal
In July 2015, a funding deal was agreed between the Government and the BBC. A key element of the deal was that the BBC would take over funding free TV licences for the over-75s. Responsibility for the cost of the concession fully transferred to the BBC in June 2020. ... An October 2019 report from the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee criticised the process leading to the BBC’s funding settlement in 2015. It concluded, among other things, that:
* the BBC had met its obligations under the 2017 Act; * funding free licences for all of the over-75s was not a sustainable option for the BBC alone."www.gov.uk/government/news/bbc-to-fund-provision-of-free-television-licences-for-over-75sContinuing to make it free for those in receipt of means-tested benefits seems a decent compromise to me, don't you think?
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Mar 25, 2021 19:14:40 GMT
Seems clear enough to me.
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