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Post by bracknellboy on May 26, 2023 6:43:14 GMT
Problem is, and the reason economic growth isn't a very meaningful measure, is that probably the majority of peoples productivity doesn't change while their pay for the job goes up over time. Teachers don't teach more, train drivers don't drive more trains, carers don't care more, civil servants don't serve more civily, violin players don't play more concerts if you raise their wages. I'm not sure I agree with that. I don't disagree with you that GDP as a measure is flawed, or that measures of productivity are also flawed, but... 1. I don't know whether or not teachers teach more, but that doesn't preclude them from teaching better. Take the pandemic. Fifty years ago, Christ, ten years ago, teaching would have simply stopped. Instead we had Zoom classes and WhatsApp groups etc. So pulling numbers out of the air let's assume that a pandemic fifty years ago would have reduced teacher productivity by 95%, but with COVID it was only reduced 20%. That is an increase in effective productivity. And that's before you apply the lessons (sorry) learned to the post-pandemic world. 2. Train drivers don't drive more trains. But "they" do if you reduce the number of guards required, or indeed eliminate the need for train drivers at all.3. No, carers don't care more. But it's not impossible to imagine a world where they have better PPE: where eg GPs, hospitals, and care services were more effectively joined up; where admin and processes were more automated, easier to engage with, and cheaper to manage etc. All of which would make the care worker "more productive". 4. Agreed. It won't make civil servants more civil. But a few I've encountered over the years could have been replaced by a decent chatbot. The result of which would have been better customer satisfaction, lower cost, and more efficient service provision. All of which amounts to increased productivity. 5. Two hundred odd years ago to listen to that violin player you had to go to the concert. A hundred years ago you might be able to buy a record. Fifty years ago you could get a tape. Thirty years ago somebody at Sony thought about digitising it and came up with the CD. Now you just stream it on Spotify. For free. Is GDP a perfect measure? Not by a long shot. Is it possible to measure productivity? Yes, but it's challenging and imperfect. Is improvement in productivity dead? Not at all. Is increasing productivity crucial to maintaining (if not improving) standards of living? Absolutely. Of course there's a couple of elephants in the room but I'll leave them until I can use a proper keyboard tomorrow morning  . Or even if technology allows you to run more trains on a network - smaller gaps, high density of trains, greater passenger throughput - while no driver is driving more trains, there is greater 'productivity' from the total system in which they do their job. More is got from the asset. It is of course a moot point where the benefits of that should flow: to the drivers (who's job is maybe easy then it was before, rather than harder), to passengers in the form of lower fares, to the "shareholders" of the system. Or some combination of all of those.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 26, 2023 8:06:27 GMT
Or even if technology allows you to run more trains on a network - smaller gaps, high density of trains, greater passenger throughput - while no driver is driving more trains, there is greater 'productivity' from the total system in which they do their job. More is got from the asset. And a carer can "care more". Caring in a residential environment allows more people to be cared for better by the same number of carers. Better route planning and time-management of at-home caring allows more visits during the same time. Better provision of equipment may save time during visits.
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Post by bernythedolt on May 26, 2023 11:27:50 GMT
Woo. The Daily Express are spinning it as the greatest thing since sliced bread, too. Bless. 'course, if we hadn't chosen to erect trade barriers, there probably wouldn't have been the question in the first place, since there wouldn't have been issues around supply from a UK battery plant to JLR's assembly plant in Slovakia (which started off as parallel extra capacity, and suddenly became primary). Nor would the government have had to promise to subsidise it to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds. Now, about Stellantis Ellesmere Port...? Remember Slovakia nicked Jaguar Land Rover off us in the first place using massive state aid... approved by the EU. Subsidy works both ways.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on May 26, 2023 11:46:11 GMT
Remember Slovakia nicked Jaguar Land Rover off us in the first place using massive state aid... Not... quite... The announcement was made in the summer of 2015 that the plant'd be in Slovakia, so the discussions would have been before that. media.jaguarlandrover.com/news/2015/08/jaguar-land-rover-unveils-next-stage-global-expansion-plansNow, what do you notice about that date? At that time, it was intended as additional capacity, as their UK plants were heavingly full and a bottleneck... And the aid in question was "only" €125m, about a third to a quarter of the UK aid to this battery plant. Problem is, there's not many places in the UK to put a plant the size of Nitra. The entire plot is about 3 miles x 1 mile, about 6x the size of Halewood, with much more scope for expansion. See also: BMW/Mini, NL vs Oxford; Ford Transit, Southampton vs Turkey; Stellantis, Ellesmere and Luton; etc etc. Problem with that kind of large industrial site in the UK is that it's all legacy development on wartime plots and heavily constrained. The Bridgwater battery plant site is part of a much smaller business park on a former munitions factory site.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on May 26, 2023 12:41:18 GMT
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jonno
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nil satis nisi optimum
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Post by jonno on May 26, 2023 12:48:04 GMT
Not necessarily short 
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 26, 2023 20:54:18 GMT
HIGNFY had me in absolute tears tonight! Well worth watching . |
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on May 26, 2023 21:51:44 GMT
HIGNFY had me in absolute tears tonight! Well worth watching . Yeah, same here.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 27, 2023 15:21:33 GMT
You don't have to be a badminton fan to appreciate this.
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on May 27, 2023 15:23:07 GMT
Yet again problems with queues at heathrow. This time front page on the BBC (at least for me). www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65731795I would like to know: 1/ What proportion of people flying into the UK have done without right of entry ? My guess would be absolutely miniscule given airlines get fined for carrying people without right of entry. Perhaps those fines could be increased even more but go back to a system of spot checking rather make everyone suffer. 2/ What would be the result if someone dies as a direct result of standing up for hours in a hot, stuffy and crowded room? Would someone "higher up" finally take the issue seriously? |
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 27, 2023 16:48:20 GMT
Yet again problems with queues at heathrow. This time front page on the BBC (at least for me). www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65731795I would like to know: 1/ What proportion of people flying into the UK have done without right of entry ? My guess would be absolutely miniscule given airlines get fined for carrying people without right of entry. Perhaps those fines could be increased even more but go back to a system of spot checking rather make everyone suffer. 2/ What would be the result if someone dies as a direct result of standing up for hours in a hot, stuffy and crowded room? Would someone "higher up" finally take the issue seriously? Heaven forbid that anyone should factor in potential delays when travelling on a bank holiday weekend
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad on May 27, 2023 17:48:29 GMT
Yet again problems with queues at heathrow. This time front page on the BBC (at least for me). www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65731795I would like to know: 1/ What proportion of people flying into the UK have done without right of entry ? My guess would be absolutely miniscule given airlines get fined for carrying people without right of entry. Perhaps those fines could be increased even more but go back to a system of spot checking rather make everyone suffer. 2/ What would be the result if someone dies as a direct result of standing up for hours in a hot, stuffy and crowded room? Would someone "higher up" finally take the issue seriously? Heaven forbid that anyone should factor in potential delays when travelling on a bank holiday weekend Why should I need to factor in 4+ hours of queuing due to technology failures? These gates have been unreliable for years...
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 27, 2023 18:38:45 GMT
Yet again problems with queues at heathrow. This time front page on the BBC (at least for me). www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65731795I would like to know: 1/ What proportion of people flying into the UK have done without right of entry ? My guess would be absolutely miniscule given airlines get fined for carrying people without right of entry. Perhaps those fines could be increased even more but go back to a system of spot checking rather make everyone suffer. 2/ What would be the result if someone dies as a direct result of standing up for hours in a hot, stuffy and crowded room? Would someone "higher up" finally take the issue seriously? Heaven forbid that anyone should factor in potential delays when travelling on a bank holiday weekend Obviously bank holiday flights are going to be over booked everywhere.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on May 27, 2023 18:39:33 GMT
Staying home myself.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 27, 2023 19:58:38 GMT
Heaven forbid that anyone should factor in potential delays when travelling on a bank holiday weekend Why should I need to factor in 4+ hours of queuing due to technology failures? These gates have been unreliable for years... Even more reason for building in a bit of slack in your schedule (and I don't think too many had to wait for 4 hrs)
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