warn
Member of DD Central
Curmudgeon
Posts: 606
Likes: 632
|
Post by warn on May 7, 2024 13:39:46 GMT
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 2,321
|
Post by keitha on May 8, 2024 9:38:49 GMT
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,045
Likes: 4,841
|
Post by adrianc on May 8, 2024 9:50:41 GMT
|
|
michaelc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 2,774
|
Post by michaelc on May 8, 2024 13:38:44 GMT
Even if it was clear both to the cyclist and the pedestrian which seems unlikely to me, that would only suggest the pedestrian was further in the wrong which I don't dispute. What troubled me about this case was the apparent lack of proportionality. Bludgeoning someone to death when you didn't mean to kill them would bring up a manslaughter charge. And, I would imagine, a much longer sentence than the three years handed down in this particular manslaughter case. She also "gestured in an aggressive and hostile manner towards the victim", according to the news report. We even have the video evidence to support that. It shows her behaviour perturbed the elderly lady enough to lose control and fall into the road. Do you think the judge, who heard all the evidence for and against, with all his years of experience, was wrong in his assessment? Look again at the footage, and especially carefully at the foot positioning of the accused. It looks very much to me like she actually pushed the elderly cyclist off her bike. If she didn't physically make contact, her actions certainly look hostile enough to cause the loss of control. Have a good look - can you honestly say there was nothing more than just a simple expletive? EDIT: Having posted the above, I've just read bracknellboy 's latest link above, which goes some way to confirming my own interpretation of the encounter... "In police interview, Grey said she believed she had made light contact with Mrs Ward. " That is indeed how it looks to me too. Good to see the appeal court judges agreed with me. The accused lady with multiple disabilities did apparently behave badly but that isn't a crime and certainly not one of the gravest crimes. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-68975335
|
|
daveb
Member of DD Central
Posts: 240
Likes: 197
|
Post by daveb on May 8, 2024 13:59:24 GMT
Yesterday I heard a radio item in which a cyclist killed a woman pedestrian, and the judge said there was no offence to punish in between "furious driving" (1861 act) and manslaughter, which requires an illegal act to have led to the death. So a cyclist on a bike without brakes is breaking the law and if they kill someone can go down for manslaughter. Otherwise they can't. This case seems to be similar, in that it isn't a criminal offence to wave your arms and shout "get off the f ing pavement" therefore it isn't manslaughter if you kill someone by doing so. It looks as though there is a massive hole in the law allowing people to kill each other if they do so in a particular way- I'd have been happier to see killers get punished
|
|
benaj
Member of DD Central
Posts: 4,911
Likes: 1,613
|
Post by benaj on May 8, 2024 14:27:42 GMT
Well not really amused to hear people died like this. Regardless of which type of road users we are, it’s always tragic to be “killed” by others with / without intentions.
I thought the guy (cyclist) who “killed” the mom was sentenced to 18 months for causing harm, and cleared of manslaughter.
No idea whether those appeared (Angered pedestrian or the delivery cyclist) for trial in court ever had remorse or regret for their action. Just sad.
MSM focuses too much on the results / verdicts / solicitors, but nothing to investigate what can be done to reduce these unnecessary deaths / accidents.
According to the footage online, the Angered pedestrian could see cyclist coming to her way, shouted and waved her left arm, but her barrister insisted she is significant impaired with her right arm. I wonder what the significance of that.
But why is it unsafe for this “vulnerable” woman for retrial for other things like “common assault” 🤷♂️. Is it because it’s not worth the money for more “legal” works on to get the “fair” trial or this angered pedestrian has already suffered enough in jail?
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,642
Likes: 4,214
|
Post by agent69 on May 8, 2024 16:15:10 GMT
In March this year, FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried was sentenced to 25 years in prison for defrauding customers and investors of the now-bankrupt firm.
However, the company's new chief executive John Ray said "We are pleased to be in a position to propose a chapter 11 plan that contemplates the return of 100% of bankruptcy claim amounts plus interest for non-governmental creditors"
Wondering if John Ray is really Gordon Craig in disguise?
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,233
Likes: 6,038
|
Post by registerme on May 8, 2024 16:50:47 GMT
|
|
james100
Member of DD Central
Posts: 997
Likes: 1,204
|
Post by james100 on May 8, 2024 17:23:30 GMT
Well not really amused to hear people died like this. Regardless of which type of road users we are, it’s always tragic to be “killed” by others with / without intentions. I thought the guy (cyclist) who “killed” the mom was sentenced to 18 months for causing harm, and cleared of manslaughter. No idea whether those appeared (Angered pedestrian or the delivery cyclist) for trial in court ever had remorse or regret for their action. Just sad. MSM focuses too much on the results / verdicts / solicitors, but nothing to investigate what can be done to reduce these unnecessary deaths / accidents. According to the footage online, the Angered pedestrian could see cyclist coming to her way, shouted and waved her left arm, but her barrister insisted she is significant impaired with her right arm. I wonder what the significance of that. But why is it unsafe for this “vulnerable” woman for retrial for other things like “common assault” 🤷♂️. Is it because it’s not worth the money for more “legal” works on to get the “fair” trial or this angered pedestrian has already suffered enough in jail? She's done a year in jail already I think. But yes, the BBC article's video posted, shows Gray was positioned a whole two thirds over the pavement. There was ample space for the cyclist to pass in theory. And Grey deliberately made a pushing gesture (accompanied by aggressive language) towards the road before the cyclist - clearly as a direct result of this - toppoled in the busy road to her death. Grey then left the scene before emergency services arrived to buy her groceries . And this is Cambridgeshire, remember. Bikeland. My sympathy is entirely reserved for the 77 year old retired midwife and grandmother, killed as a consequence of her actions (which were found not to be explained by her disabilities).
|
|
|
Post by captainconfident on May 8, 2024 19:15:12 GMT
I agree with you james100, but I don't agree that cyclists should be riding on the pavement. I also do not agree that cyclists should be riding in the car lane. But I live in the EU where cyclists have their own cyclepaths. Its a massive failure of successive Governments that is responsible for these deaths and NUMEROUS deaths of cyclists killed by cars and lorries.
|
|
09dolphin
Member of DD Central
Posts: 631
Likes: 857
|
Post by 09dolphin on May 8, 2024 20:09:01 GMT
Well not really amused to hear people died like this. Regardless of which type of road users we are, it’s always tragic to be “killed” by others with / without intentions. I thought the guy (cyclist) who “killed” the mom was sentenced to 18 months for causing harm, and cleared of manslaughter. No idea whether those appeared (Angered pedestrian or the delivery cyclist) for trial in court ever had remorse or regret for their action. Just sad. MSM focuses too much on the results / verdicts / solicitors, but nothing to investigate what can be done to reduce these unnecessary deaths / accidents. According to the footage online, the Angered pedestrian could see cyclist coming to her way, shouted and waved her left arm, but her barrister insisted she is significant impaired with her right arm. I wonder what the significance of that. But why is it unsafe for this “vulnerable” woman for retrial for other things like “common assault” 🤷♂️. Is it because it’s not worth the money for more “legal” works on to get the “fair” trial or this angered pedestrian has already suffered enough in jail? My understanding is that the appeal court judges said that the law states that if the pavement is less than 3 m wide it cannot be designated for pedestrian/cyclist use and the origional trial judge was wrong as there was no evidence that the local council had ever desicgnated the pavement for use by cyclists. The cyclist was forcing the pedestrian onto a small space where her disability could compromise her safety. Thus the cyclist shouldn't have been on the pavement and the pedestrian remonstrating was not unreasonable. However it was a tragic outcome for both cyclist and pedestrian.
|
|
|
Post by bernythedolt on May 8, 2024 21:21:54 GMT
And, I would imagine, a much longer sentence than the three years handed down in this particular manslaughter case. She also "gestured in an aggressive and hostile manner towards the victim", according to the news report. We even have the video evidence to support that. It shows her behaviour perturbed the elderly lady enough to lose control and fall into the road. Do you think the judge, who heard all the evidence for and against, with all his years of experience, was wrong in his assessment? Look again at the footage, and especially carefully at the foot positioning of the accused. It looks very much to me like she actually pushed the elderly cyclist off her bike. If she didn't physically make contact, her actions certainly look hostile enough to cause the loss of control. Have a good look - can you honestly say there was nothing more than just a simple expletive? EDIT: Having posted the above, I've just read bracknellboy 's latest link above, which goes some way to confirming my own interpretation of the encounter... "In police interview, Grey said she believed she had made light contact with Mrs Ward. " That is indeed how it looks to me too. Good to see the appeal court judges agreed with me. The accused lady with multiple disabilities did apparently behave badly but that isn't a crime and certainly not one of the gravest crimes. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-68975335I hope the family of the lady who was killed see it that way and manage to find peace in due course.
|
|
|
Post by overthehill on May 8, 2024 21:51:04 GMT
I was sitting in my car a while back in an area where anything goes basically. At the 90 degree totally blind corner of the building two numbnuts came zooming round it on their bikes on the pavement in opposite directions. Funniest thing you'll ever see. Doh how did that happen ?
|
|
keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
Posts: 3,889
Likes: 2,321
|
Post by keitha on May 11, 2024 15:26:39 GMT
|
|
agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,642
Likes: 4,214
|
Post by agent69 on May 11, 2024 16:15:44 GMT
eviction will take place on 29 May 2024, at 10am.
If I was in the area I might be tempted to pay a visit and wave her goodbye.
|
|