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Post by bernythedolt on Oct 25, 2021 22:18:32 GMT
I think the point is they will block most calls emanating from abroad which present themselves as having a UK source number. That's what the Telegraph says today anyway:- "Many of the scam calls are made by foreign gangs using technology to make it appear as if the call is coming from within the UK. Others trick their victims out of thousands of pounds by ‘spoofing’ genuine numbers belonging to British banks.
But after talks with Ofcom, the telecoms regulator, major networks have agreed to block nearly every call coming from abroad if it shows up with a UK Caller ID.
The only calls allowed through will be those made from roaming mobiles or from call centres proven to be legitimate. "Which won't necessarily do anything at all... If the scammers use a UK VoIP provider, then the call will have a UK caller ID and will enter the phone networks in the UK, but the actual scammers are nowhere near the UK. The actual call entered the UK as internet data. There is no way that the networks can possibly know where that internet data originated.And, no, they can't force VoIP operators to bar traffic originating from outside the UK - that's how all the offshored call centres work... of the telecom providers perhaps, but what about the UK VoIP operators? The data carrying the VoIP payload from the scammer's phone is transported in IP datagrams which will include a source IP address. Guesswork on my part, but I imagine the aim is to get the UK telcos to lean on UK VoIP operators to start policing this more carefully, if they expect to be able to pass their traffic to those UK telcos... or risk being cut off. The VoIP operators should know the source addresses of their legitimate call centre clients and can hopefully filter out the rest intelligently based on IP source address. Maybe. (Admittedly my expertise has waned significantly since retirement 😁).
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 26, 2021 6:53:29 GMT
Which won't necessarily do anything at all... If the scammers use a UK VoIP provider, then the call will have a UK caller ID and will enter the phone networks in the UK, but the actual scammers are nowhere near the UK. The actual call entered the UK as internet data. There is no way that the networks can possibly know where that internet data originated.And, no, they can't force VoIP operators to bar traffic originating from outside the UK - that's how all the offshored call centres work... of the telecom providers perhaps, but what about the UK VoIP operators? The data carrying the VoIP payload from the scammer's phone is transported in IP datagrams which will include a source IP address. So GeoIP is the ultimate determinant of whether a call is a scam or not? Not hard to wrap it in a VPN to disguise the ultimate source, either.
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Post by bernythedolt on Oct 26, 2021 11:05:20 GMT
True of the telecom providers perhaps, but what about the UK VoIP operators? The data carrying the VoIP payload from the scammer's phone is transported in IP datagrams which will include a source IP address. So GeoIP is the ultimate determinant of whether a call is a scam or not? Not hard to wrap it in a VPN to disguise the ultimate source, either. Solving this problem is well above my pay grade, but I imagine there's a discernible pattern, a footprint of 'dodgy' IP source addresses out there. Perhaps the VoIP providers need to be doing more to question their clients (those outside the legit call centres), including why exactly they need to present themselves with a UK subscriber source telephone number. Obviously those looking at this believe a solution of sorts does exist.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 27, 2021 17:56:47 GMT
Got a call today, I'm usually very cautious but it was a local call and I thought doctor, dentist, optician etc most of which I might be expecting to call. I didn't get the first part the connection was bad, but they were asking who owns the house, at that point I told them to go away (politely of course) does anyone know what this was about, I didn't engage so didn't get the punchline! Our neighbours house is for sale so did wonder if that is connected. I can't find who owns the number, but it does seem to call all over England, so maybe not a local house agent. A bit puzzled.
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Post by overthehill on Oct 27, 2021 18:25:31 GMT
Got a call today, I'm usually very cautious but it was a local call and I thought doctor, dentist, optician etc most of which I might be expecting to call. I didn't get the first part the connection was bad, but they were asking who owns the house, at that point I told them to go away (politely of course) does anyone know what this was about, I didn't engage so didn't get the punchline! Our neighbours house is for sale so did wonder if that is connected. I can't find who owns the number, but it does seem to call all over England, so maybe not a local house agent. A bit puzzled. Did the number not show up on these 'who called me' websites ? How do you know it calls people all over england ? what is the number ?
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 27, 2021 20:02:11 GMT
Got a call today, I'm usually very cautious but it was a local call and I thought doctor, dentist, optician etc most of which I might be expecting to call. I didn't get the first part the connection was bad, but they were asking who owns the house, at that point I told them to go away (politely of course) does anyone know what this was about, I didn't engage so didn't get the punchline! Our neighbours house is for sale so did wonder if that is connected. I can't find who owns the number, but it does seem to call all over England, so maybe not a local house agent. A bit puzzled. Did the number not show up on these 'who called me' websites ? How do you know it calls people all over england ? what is the number ?
I looked it up on 'who called me' there were no comments (until I did, and then someone else commented about deliveries which sounds like a more general scam number) but a number of people in various parts of the country had checked it out and not commented. I just wondered if anyone else had had a similar approach, it might have been a 'get your free insulation jobbie' or something such but checking who owned the property first. I'll keep an eye on the number to see if anything develops.
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Post by moonraker on Oct 28, 2021 15:10:49 GMT
Got a call today, I'm usually very cautious but it was a local call and I thought doctor, dentist, optician etc most of which I might be expecting to call. I didn't get the first part the connection was bad, but they were asking who owns the house, at that point I told them to go away (politely of course) does anyone know what this was about, I didn't engage so didn't get the punchline! Our neighbours house is for sale so did wonder if that is connected. I can't find who owns the number, but it does seem to call all over England, so maybe not a local house agent. A bit puzzled. I was asked this several times some years ago. I responded to one telephone caller by saying "I don't think that's any business of yours," prompting her to snap back and tell me not be so rude. Youngsters offering "free advice" also started off by asking me this, but I didn't allow them to go any further.
The landline rang this morning. I don't usually answer calls on it, but did so on this occasion, to find that it was a "Microsoft engineer" who'd had a report about a fault on my PC. That particular scam is at least a decade old and I would have thought that many people were aware of it. Not all, of course ...
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 28, 2021 15:39:39 GMT
The landline rang this morning. I don't usually answer calls on it, but did so on this occasion, to find that it was a "Microsoft engineer" who'd had a report about a fault on my PC. That particular scam is at least a decade old and I would have thought that many people were aware of it. Not all, of course ... I finally had my first one of those calls recently! Clearly, I didn't "dumb down" enough, because they hung up on me in less than a minute. No fun. I wanted to play...
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Post by bernythedolt on Oct 29, 2021 12:13:40 GMT
The landline rang this morning. I don't usually answer calls on it, but did so on this occasion, to find that it was a "Microsoft engineer" who'd had a report about a fault on my PC. That particular scam is at least a decade old and I would have thought that many people were aware of it. Not all, of course ... I finally had my first one of those calls recently! Clearly, I didn't "dumb down" enough, because they hung up on me in less than a minute. No fun. I wanted to play... ...it is good fun if you can bait them for a while. I followed through his script up to the point where he would have taken control of my PC and then told him I had an unexpected pop-up box on screen. He asked me to read it, so I replied deadpan, " It says you are about to be cheated by a dirty filthy scamming toerag". At which point he called me a "motherf@%£#&" and other expletives before hanging up the phone with an elevated blood pressure. I chalked that up as a win! 😁 You should check out the YouTube scambaiters. Those guys do it expertly.
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Post by bernythedolt on Oct 29, 2021 12:19:59 GMT
These days I can't be bothered, so just tell them I'll fetch the bill-payer/landlord, grab a pencil, or whatever and leave them hanging on the phone. You can hear them checking regularly in the background, hello, hello? I think my record so far is about 10 minutes.  |
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Post by overthehill on Oct 29, 2021 12:24:30 GMT
I finally had my first one of those calls recently! Clearly, I didn't "dumb down" enough, because they hung up on me in less than a minute. No fun. I wanted to play... ...it is good fun if you can bait them for a while. I followed through his script up to the point where he would have taken control of my PC and then told him I had an unexpected pop-up box on screen. He asked me to read it, so I replied deadpan, " It says you are about to be cheated by a dirty filthy scamming toerag". At which point he called me a "motherf@%£#&" and other expletives before hanging up the phone with an elevated blood pressure. I chalked that up as a win! 😁 You should check out the YouTube scambaiters. Those guys do it expertly.
Sounds like one of those international VOIP calls with a local UK number that OFCOM has been told to shut down. These people think they are anonymous and safe from prosecution because their crime is taking place in a foreign country. There is a much higher risk sitting in the UK with a UK number perpetrating crime, it's just a matter of time before you're caught so they have to keep moving or changing. I don't know what percentage of these crimes originate in the UK, it would be good to know.
Wasting their time is actually a good tactic and I think the scam (  ) baiters see this as worthwhile, the more people that do it the better. I can't waste my time on these people and organisations, they're no better than muggers, just lucky our criminal justice is still catching up on what constitutes a crime.
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Post by overthehill on Oct 29, 2021 12:45:15 GMT
These days I can't be bothered, so just tell them I'll fetch the bill-payer/landlord, grab a pencil, or whatever and leave them hanging on the phone. You can hear them checking regularly in the background, hello, hello? I think my record so far is about 10 minutes.
Another excellent idea. Sounds like a call to arms for everyone on the forum to waste as much of their time as possible. Most of them are that thick they probably don't even exclude numbers where they have been sussed out.
My problem is I don't use my landline anymore, I hear it faintly ringing a lot inside the wall socket. I used to have a call filter on my mobile with about 50 blocked numbers but had to drop that app 6 months ago because of android 11. Since then I think i've only blocked 2 numbers, strange.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 29, 2021 17:49:24 GMT
The landline rang this morning. I don't usually answer calls on it, but did so on this occasion, to find that it was a "Microsoft engineer" who'd had a report about a fault on my PC. That particular scam is at least a decade old and I would have thought that many people were aware of it. Not all, of course ... I finally had my first one of those calls recently! Clearly, I didn't "dumb down" enough, because they hung up on me in less than a minute. No fun. I wanted to play... One of the early ones I had of these I eventually said I don't have a computer, he still rang back a bit later to ask if I was by my computer now! I've also explained to some of them that they have a lousy list of targets and they should complain to whoever they bought it from.
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Oct 29, 2021 18:52:22 GMT
my scheme starts with a bit of confused dribble, you know me , hi Jane / John followed by i thought it was my son / daughter calling , sorry had a couple of minor strokes get confused, suck them in easy target.Then cannot find glasses , cannnot remember password stretch it on. Target is need to go to toilet get them to listen to urination noises and toilet flush .Dream then to number 2 with grunts and straining through to flush but never got that far before termination of call.
Nasty, crude, yes but they are worth it.
Second sheme if not got time or cannot be bothered, answer in made up foreign gibberish kind of french mixed with chinese and dog howls, calls tend not to last long cannot understand why.I know its childish but i dont care.
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Post by bernythedolt on Oct 30, 2021 11:47:15 GMT
my scheme starts with a bit of confused dribble, you know me , hi Jane / John followed by i thought it was my son / daughter calling , sorry had a couple of minor strokes get confused, suck them in easy target.Then cannot find glasses , cannnot remember password stretch it on. Target is need to go to toilet get them to listen to urination noises and toilet flush .Dream then to number 2 with grunts and straining through to flush but never got that far before termination of call. Nasty, crude, yes but they are worth it. Second sheme if not got time or cannot be bothered, answer in made up foreign gibberish kind of french mixed with chinese and dog howls, calls tend not to last long cannot understand why.I know its childish but i dont care. Round here that's known as Welsh! 😁
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) baiters see this as worthwhile, the more people that do it the better. I can't waste my time on these people and organisations, they're no better than muggers, just lucky our criminal justice is still catching up on what constitutes a crime.