ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 11, 2024 23:40:19 GMT
Worth reading the rest of the thread which explains and shows what's probably happened. Big weight to bend barrel down in sign of defeat seems to have dislodged heat shroud etc ...
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Post by gramsky on Jun 12, 2024 6:48:58 GMT
Took me a few seconds to work it out, Ukraine and our UK & EU politicians haven't yet. Attachments:
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Post by gramsky on Jun 12, 2024 17:02:50 GMT
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k6
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Post by k6 on Jun 12, 2024 18:34:00 GMT
From article : " I have been regularly ridiculed as "Chicken Little - the Sky is falling." People have lambasted me as promoting "fear porn" and offering stories as "click bait" I believe Serbian population is mostly pro-russian, perhaps the president itself is . . . well, perhaps without a choice so, creating a war fear when russia is loosing is definitely a mr.putin continuous game. Pretty simple and kind of obvious . . .
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 12, 2024 18:39:46 GMT
From article : " I have been regularly ridiculed as "Chicken Little - the Sky is falling." People have lambasted me as promoting "fear porn" and offering stories as "click bait" I believe Serbian population is mostly pro-russian, perhaps the president itself is . . . well, perhaps without a choice so, creating a war fear when russia is loosing is definitely a mr.putin continuous game. Pretty simple and kind of obvious . . . Serbia is also currently stoking conflict in Kosovo and in Bosnia.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jun 15, 2024 14:11:29 GMT
Could Putin's latest "offer" of Ukranian total surrender, be just a maximalist starting point? Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground?
What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? Could Ukraine defend against that? Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding (at their own great cost).
So is that possible or not ? If its not, what does Ukraine have to worry about? Air bombardment of their cities and infrastructure? They are also doing it to Russia now albeit currently at a smaller scale. Could they ramp that up thus having a significant bargaining chip to stop aerial assaults on both sides with a defacto border along the front line?
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Post by bracknellboy on Jun 15, 2024 14:51:44 GMT
Could Putin's latest "offer" of Ukranian total surrender, be just a maximalist starting point? Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground? What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? Could Ukraine defend against that? Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding (at their own great cost). So is that possible or not ? If its not, what does Ukraine have to worry about? Air bombardment of their cities and infrastructure? They are also doing it to Russia now albeit currently at a smaller scale. Could they ramp that up thus having a significant bargaining chip to stop aerial assaults on both sides with a defacto border along the front line? 1. His latest maximalist starting point "offer" amounts to about the same as his end point "offer" at the last set of negotiations* The breakdown of which is apparently the fault of the west. Nothing to do with the demands and threats of Putin's Russia, obviously. [*Minus perhaps the removal of the "Nazi regime" in Kyiv.] 2. The "end result" is going to be something we currently have no idea about. But the significant influence on any final settlement of the reality on the ground is precisely why those who have argued for strong consistent military support for Ukraine have been doing so. 3. What would Putin need to do to break through ? Well for one, he can continue to undermine and influence western politics and particularly the USA. The biggest contribution to the Russian war effort would be to have the US stop financial and material support to Ukr. e.g. quite likely through Trump coming to power, or stronger Republican representation in Congress even under a Biden administration. Russian forces will be able to pretty much walk through Ukrainian lines if they don't have shells/munitions/ammunition etc. to counter with. I doubt ATM Putin has any interest whatsoever in serious negotiations. With a US election coming up in November, why would he have ? Unless the reality on the ground turns against him in the interim. Or internal pressures are building. [Not to mention the political tide in Europe]
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 15, 2024 16:37:39 GMT
From Putins point of view, no point in not asking. Because they are going nowhere on the battlefield and have simply burned up their army with practically nothing to show for it for a year. The Russians clearly have no idea what to do now, having doubled down on doubling down and beginning to reach the bottom of the barrel, particularly in artillery pieces while Ukraine gets more powerful. They keep bashing away because there us no other approach available but it will just get weaker as it continues until hopelessness sets in.
So, "We're open to negotiations on our terms" plays well with its intended audience which is some African countries and the US far right and the European far left.
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k6
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Post by k6 on Jun 15, 2024 21:36:50 GMT
Could Putin's latest "offer" of Ukranian total surrender, be just a maximalist starting point? Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground? What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? Could Ukraine defend against that? Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding (at their own great cost). So is that possible or not ? If its not, what does Ukraine have to worry about? Air bombardment of their cities and infrastructure? They are also doing it to Russia now albeit currently at a smaller scale. Could they ramp that up thus having a significant bargaining chip to stop aerial assaults on both sides with a defacto border along the front line? " Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground? " - No , the end point is russia get the F out of Ukraine " What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? " - Im not gonna tell you cos you would pass this to your tsar :-) " Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? " - No " Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding " - No The end
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
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Post by michaelc on Jun 15, 2024 22:34:41 GMT
Could Putin's latest "offer" of Ukranian total surrender, be just a maximalist starting point? Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground? What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? Could Ukraine defend against that? Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding (at their own great cost). So is that possible or not ? If its not, what does Ukraine have to worry about? Air bombardment of their cities and infrastructure? They are also doing it to Russia now albeit currently at a smaller scale. Could they ramp that up thus having a significant bargaining chip to stop aerial assaults on both sides with a defacto border along the front line? " Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground? " - No , the end point is russia get the F out of Ukraine " What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? " - Im not gonna tell you cos you would pass this to your tsar :-) " Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? " - No " Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding " - No The end Sounds like the war is putting an intolerable strain on you.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 15, 2024 22:43:33 GMT
" Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground? " - No , the end point is russia get the F out of Ukraine " What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? " - Im not gonna tell you cos you would pass this to your tsar :-) " Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? " - No " Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding " - No The end Sounds like the war is putting an intolerable strain on you. Spend forty years reading military history then.
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angrysaveruk
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Back and to the left..
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 16, 2024 9:52:21 GMT
Could Putin's latest "offer" of Ukranian total surrender, be just a maximalist starting point? Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground? What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? Could Ukraine defend against that? Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding (at their own great cost). So is that possible or not ? If its not, what does Ukraine have to worry about? Air bombardment of their cities and infrastructure? They are also doing it to Russia now albeit currently at a smaller scale. Could they ramp that up thus having a significant bargaining chip to stop aerial assaults on both sides with a defacto border along the front line? Unsurprisingly the US has told Ukraine to reject the offer and to continue being pointlessly slaughtered by the Russians. If Zelensky represented the Ukrainian population he would enter into negotiations. If they do not accept this offer or at least use it as a starting point for negotiations the next step in this conflict is probably the unconditional surrender of Ukraine to the Russians and a few hundred thousand more Ukrainians killed after Russia starts it offensive that it is obviously amassing troops for. From a NATO perspective entering into negotiations with the Russians now is better than the total defeat in Ukraine that is now inevitable.
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 16, 2024 10:28:59 GMT
Unsurprisingly the US has told Ukraine to reject the offer and to continue being pointlessly slaughtered by the Russians. If Zelensky represented the Ukrainian population he would enter into negotiations. If they do not accept this offer or at least use it as a starting point for negotiations the next step in this conflict is probably the unconditional surrender of Ukraine to the Russians and a few hundred thousand more Ukrainians killed after Russia starts it offensive that it is obviously amassing troops for. From a NATO perspective entering into negotiations with the Russians now is better than the total defeat in Ukraine that is now inevitable. What are you drinking?
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angrysaveruk
Member of DD Central
Back and to the left..
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Post by angrysaveruk on Jun 16, 2024 10:43:28 GMT
Unsurprisingly the US has told Ukraine to reject the offer and to continue being pointlessly slaughtered by the Russians. If Zelensky represented the Ukrainian population he would enter into negotiations. If they do not accept this offer or at least use it as a starting point for negotiations the next step in this conflict is probably the unconditional surrender of Ukraine to the Russians and a few hundred thousand more Ukrainians killed after Russia starts it offensive that it is obviously amassing troops for. From a NATO perspective entering into negotiations with the Russians now is better than the total defeat in Ukraine that is now inevitable. What are you drinking? I am drinking the Coffee of Reality.
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,214
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Post by ilmoro on Jun 16, 2024 10:51:45 GMT
Could Putin's latest "offer" of Ukranian total surrender, be just a maximalist starting point? Surely the end result is going to be where the front lines are on the ground? What would Putin need to do to comprehensively break through Ukranian lines and march on Kyiv? Could he simply conscript 10 million men, corresponding artillery and just do it ? Could Ukraine defend against that? Russia does have form in throwing in wave after wave and ultimately succeeding (at their own great cost). So is that possible or not ? If its not, what does Ukraine have to worry about? Air bombardment of their cities and infrastructure? They are also doing it to Russia now albeit currently at a smaller scale. Could they ramp that up thus having a significant bargaining chip to stop aerial assaults on both sides with a defacto border along the front line? Unsurprisingly the US has told Ukraine to reject the offer and to continue being pointlessly slaughtered by the Russians. If Zelensky represented the Ukrainian population he would enter into negotiations. If they do not accept this offer or at least use it as a starting point for negotiations the next step in this conflict is probably the unconditional surrender of Ukraine to the Russians and a few hundred thousand more Ukrainians killed after Russia starts it offensive that it is obviously amassing troops for. From a NATO perspective entering into negotiations with the Russians now is better than the total defeat in Ukraine that is now inevitable. Surely rejecting unconditional surrender is negotiating? Unconditional doesnt leave a lot of room for discussion, one side dictating to the other isnt negotiating.
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