michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 22, 2024 20:35:03 GMT
 Kursk invasion was that not clear ? Ah right, you invade & annexe over 10% of our country, after 18 months we pop over the border for a picnic in the park ... #minor aggression. Yeah but like Adrian you're deliberately missing the point.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 22, 2024 20:54:25 GMT
The short answer to that is: mostly....and historically almost entirely Russia and the US/NATO countries have avoided direct confrontation with each other since the second world war. Since the Soviet Union first acquired nuclear weapons in 1949, the risk / threat of escalation to a nuclear conflict has been the single dominant factor in managing their relationship. That's 75 years. I don't think it is going too far to say that it is almost inconceivable that there would not have been direct conflict up to now if it wasn't for that particular elephant in the room. Sure there has been war by proxies. But avoiding direct conflict, even to avoid entirely inadvertent, has been an overriding objective in Western and NATO thinking - and for most of that time Russian/Soviet Union - since '49. The fact that both India and China are nuclear powers has for sure provided incentive for both parties to deescalate border conflicts that otherwise could have grown into something much worse. Similar considerations almost certainly now apply to playing down/de-escalating.off-ramping Pakistan/Indian "skirmishes". That at least is a genuine reply. What worries me is that as far as I know during those 75 years of cold war, neither the USSR or the West attacked each other's sovereign territory. Yes proxy wars in proxy countries but no invasion of Russia, the US or the UK for example. We're in unchartered territory (so to speak). Correct, but that is kind of the point. I think it is close to inconceivable that would not have happened if it wasn't for the 'nuclear umbrella' / MAD. We should of course remind ourselves that STILL has not happened. These weapons are being supplied by the west for Ukr to defend itself, and it is Ukr that is using them. Is their some element of UK/US/Fr involvement in final target programming for example? Maybe. It maybe that is more than just a maybe.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 22, 2024 21:02:30 GMT
And if we need permission from the US to fire our own SS missiles, what are the chances of any else in our aging arsenal being used without US approval ? Zero. Even the storms shadow missiles which Starmer seems to think are going to turn the tide in Ukraine the UK borrowed from the French are pretty outdated - over 30 years old. The reality is the UK has almost zero manufacturing base and very few people studying the subjects needed to develop advanced military technology. The US has also fallen behind, with Iran having more advanced missile technology than the US - if you said that a few years ago people would think you were joking. <....> would you like to expound on that ? 'cos on the face of it, it appears to be another one of those baseless assertions that is disconnected from reality and is just tossed in there a bit like chucking brown stuff at the wall in the the hope that eventually some of it will stick.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 22, 2024 21:11:21 GMT
Well it is the opinion of the press in Russia which is probably under the control of the Russian government to a certain extent (like in the UK). But I would say it is pretty relevant if you want to predict how Russia will react. One pretty amusing thing is that the Russians seem to have widely adopted the slang "The Chihuahua" to refer to the UK - apparently this was started by Putin.
Interesting that you edited your post to swap an angry Chihuahua out for a cute one. I mean it's still a pissant silly little dog but...
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 22, 2024 21:14:07 GMT
Ah right, you invade & annexe over 10% of our country, after 18 months we pop over the border for a picnic in the park ... #minor aggression. Yeah but like Adrian you're deliberately missing the point. What was it?
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 22, 2024 21:17:44 GMT
Oh, I'm sooooo looking forward to use that phrase next time I step on come across a chewbacca and its owner.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 22, 2024 21:28:12 GMT
Well it is the opinion of the press in Russia which is probably under the control of the Russian government to a certain extent (like in the UK). But I would say it is pretty relevant if you want to predict how Russia will react. One pretty amusing thing is that the Russians seem to have widely adopted the slang "The Chihuahua" to refer to the UK - apparently this was started by Putin.
Interesting that you edited your post to swap an angry Chihuahua out for a cute one. I mean it's still a pissant silly little dog but... What makes you think he did that ?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Nov 22, 2024 21:29:18 GMT
Zero. Even the storms shadow missiles which Starmer seems to think are going to turn the tide in Ukraine the UK borrowed from the French are pretty outdated - over 30 years old. The reality is the UK has almost zero manufacturing base and very few people studying the subjects needed to develop advanced military technology. The US has also fallen behind, with Iran having more advanced missile technology than the US - if you said that a few years ago people would think you were joking. <....> would you like to expound on that ? 'cos on the face of it, it appears to be another one of those baseless assertions that is disconnected from reality and is just tossed in there a bit like chucking brown stuff at the wall in the the hope that eventually some of it will stick. The missile is based on the French-developed Apache anti-runway cruise missile, but differs in that it carries a unitary warhead instead of cluster munitions.[6]
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Nov 22, 2024 21:31:15 GMT
Interesting that you edited your post to swap an angry Chihuahua out for a cute one. I mean it's still a pissant silly little dog but... What makes you think he did that ? I edited it because the initial one was too scary for some of the more sensitive members of the forum who are suffering from TDS - I was worried it might trigger Bono Syndrome (which is the end stage of TDS) * * - I have been very worried about RegisterMe since the US election results.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Nov 22, 2024 21:33:15 GMT
What makes you think he did that ? I edited it because the initial one was too scary for some of the more sensitive members of the forum who are suffering from TDS - I was worried it might trigger Bono Syndrome. Yeah but no but yeah but how did he know that ?
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angrysaveruk
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Post by angrysaveruk on Nov 22, 2024 21:35:26 GMT
I edited it because the initial one was too scary for some of the more sensitive members of the forum who are suffering from TDS - I was worried it might trigger Bono Syndrome. Yeah but no but yeah but how did he know that ? Dont know he saw it right after I posted it, I changed it 10 minutes later after I was worried he would see it but it was too late...
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Nov 22, 2024 21:43:20 GMT
I imagine I'll survive the trauma.
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Post by bracknellboy on Nov 22, 2024 21:46:04 GMT
would you like to expound on that ? 'cos on the face of it, it appears to be another one of those baseless assertions that is disconnected from reality and is just tossed in there a bit like chucking brown stuff at the wall in the the hope that eventually some of it will stick. The missile is based on the French-developed Apache anti-runway cruise missile, but differs in that it carries a unitary warhead instead of cluster munitions.[6] oh sure its 'based on'. All sorts of stuff is 'based on' other stuff, in the multi national co development world of military procurement. And yes there may be a greater heritage of Fr design in SS/Scalp, but ultimately it's an Anglo-French collaboration produced by a multi national European company that has 37.5% BAE Systems ownership, 37.5% ownership by (what is now) Airbus, and 25% Italian ownership through Leonardo. Oh, UK SS's are manufactured in the UK. So they weren't exactly 'borrowed from'. MBDA produce a whole arsenal (pun intended) of stuff utilising cross national design, development and manufacturing teams.
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Post by Badly Drawn Stickman on Nov 22, 2024 21:50:58 GMT
I imagine I'll survive the trauma. I found the picture of a dog increased my SPS level. All the more so for it being quoted.......
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ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Nov 22, 2024 22:17:50 GMT
What makes you think he did that ? I edited it because the initial one was too scary for some of the more sensitive members of the forum who are suffering from TDS - I was worried it might trigger Bono Syndrome (which is the end stage of TDS) * * - I have been very worried about RegisterMe since the US election results. More likely Bonio syndrome
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