agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 19, 2022 17:24:51 GMT
There appears to have been a lot of people moaning on the forum recently, so thought I should join in. Living in the middle of Devon I accept that modern technology might be a bit late in arriving but:
I'm in the garden this morning painting a wall when I hear hammering and banging from the distance. Initially I ignore it, but as the noise gets closer I think I should investigate (It's not a very big wall but I'm a very lethargic painter). When I get out the front of the house I notice that the footpath is closed and that contractors are installing a duct. I approach one of the operatives and the conversation goes something like this:
- Me: Excuse me but do you mind me asking what you are doing
- Op: We're installing ducts for a new fibre optic cable
- Me: Is there any reason why we haven't been notified in advance about these works?
- Op: It's only a footpath closure so we don't need to notify.
- Me: look son, I've been working in the construction industry for 40 years, and have closed more roads and footpaths than you've had hot dinners. I know what the rules are so no need to try bullsh*t*ng me.
- Op: OK must have been an oversight on our part
- Me: So what happens if I want to get my car out of the drive while you have the footway dug up? I assume this scenario is covered in your method statement and risk assessments?
- Op: It will only take 15 minutes to get past your house. If you're thinking to going out maybe you could park your car on the road.
- Me: Happy to park on the road, however you and your 2 colleagues have 4 vans parked outside my house so there's no space for my car.
- Op: I'll shift one of the vans to make a space for you.
So all goes well, but I'm slightly curious what the duct is for. I currently have fibre to the cabinet internet connection with TalkTalk, using the BT cabinet about 100m down the road. I live in a cul-de-sac in a housng estate so the duct can only be for domestic 'fibre to the premisis' use. So does anyone know how this works?
- Is it a stand alone network independent of the BT cabinet down the road?
- Is it a network for a single provider to use, or is it a shared resource?
- How does the fibre cable get from the duct to my house?
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Post by bernythedolt on Apr 19, 2022 18:02:39 GMT
Having had FTTP installed in my current and previous houses, I'll take a stab...
If it was installed by Virgin (or a subcontractor like Kelly), then it may well be Virgin-only, as per our our first house. If installed by Openreach, as per our current house last year, I believe it should be shareable by others, and not just BT. We went with BT as that was our only option initially, and they offered a decent incentive deal, but I know one neighbour has subsequently chosen Zen, meaning ours must be shareable. We found Openreach not particularly forthcoming, with no documentation provided to householders outlining their options.
The bit I'm more confident about is your final question. If you opt for the faster service (FTTP), they will bury the fibreglass strand through your garden (or use existing ducting if available), pass it through a hole drilled into your house and terminate it in a small box on an interior wall. Tight radius curves present a problem (obviously glass doesn't bend well...), but the installers are skilled at overcoming most difficulties and will leave a good job.
From the fibre termination box, a short Ethernet cable runs to your wireless router. They advise your router is sited reasonably near this terminator (as copper wire will attenuate the signal if too long).
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Apr 19, 2022 18:32:44 GMT
We moved to our current place in July '21 - were advised our new estimated speed was "point one meg" I thought I heard 1Mb and spat my tea out "one megabit per second?!" - "no POINT one"
I got to cancel without penalty but your pavement sounds lovely I bet its warmer down there as well have you thought of airbnb
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Apr 19, 2022 19:05:13 GMT
We moved to our current place in July '21 - were advised our new estimated speed was "point one meg" I thought I heard 1Mb and spat my tea out "one megabit per second?!" - "no POINT one" I got to cancel without penalty but your pavement sounds lovely I bet its warmer down there as well have you thought of airbnb No good looking in this direction for sympathy. Your talking to somebody who owned a 28.8KB router, and a copy of Windows 1.0 on floopy discs.
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Post by overthehill on Apr 19, 2022 19:43:09 GMT
Having had FTTP installed in my current and previous houses, I'll take a stab... If it was installed by Virgin (or a subcontractor like Kelly), then it may well be Virgin-only, as per our our first house. If installed by Openreach, as per our current house last year, I believe it should be shareable by others, and not just BT. We went with BT as that was our only option initially, and they offered a decent incentive deal, but I know one neighbour has subsequently chosen Zen, meaning ours must be shareable. We found Openreach not particularly forthcoming, with no documentation provided to householders outlining their options. The bit I'm more confident about is your final question. If you opt for the faster service (FTTP), they will bury the fibreglass strand through your garden (or use existing ducting if available), pass it through a hole drilled into your house and terminate it in a small box on an interior wall. Tight radius curves present a problem (obviously glass doesn't bend well...), but the installers are skilled at overcoming most difficulties and will leave a good job. From the fibre termination box, a short Ethernet cable runs to your wireless router. They advise your router is sited reasonably near this terminator (as copper wire will attenuate the signal if too long).
Beside me it is this lot who have installed the cables in the pavement. You can choose your own retail broadband provider. I won't be paying those prices, I'm struggling to use even 75Mbits/s 24 hours a day let alone full fibre. From experience they will get plenty of mugs switching to full fibre because their internet is 'running slow' only to find it is still slow after upgrading because it had nothing to do with the broadband speed!
What does CityFibre do?
As the UK’s third national wholesale digital infrastructure platform and the builder of Gigabit Cities, CityFibre designs, builds, owns and operates full fibre networks. CityFibre has network rollouts underway in 60+ towns and cities, with plans to bring full fibre broadband to up to 8 million homes and businesses as part of its £4bn Gigabit City Investment Programme.
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 19, 2022 19:49:22 GMT
There appears to have been a lot of people moaning on the forum recently, so thought I should join in. Living in the middle of Devon I accept that modern technology might be a bit late in arriving but:
I'm in the garden this morning painting a wall when I hear hammering and banging from the distance. Initially I ignore it, but as the noise gets closer I think I should investigate (It's not a very big wall but I'm a very lethargic painter). When I get out the front of the house I notice that the footpath is closed and that contractors are installing a duct. I approach one of the operatives and the conversation goes something like this:
- Me: Excuse me but do you mind me asking what you are doing
- Op: We're installing ducts for a new fibre optic cable
- Me: Is there any reason why we haven't been notified in advance about these works?
- Op: It's only a footpath closure so we don't need to notify.
- Me: look son, I've been working in the construction industry for 40 years, and have closed more roads and footpaths than you've had hot dinners. I know what the rules are so no need to try bullsh*t*ng me.
- Op: OK must have been an oversight on our part
- Me: So what happens if I want to get my car out of the drive while you have the footway dug up? I assume this scenario is covered in your method statement and risk assessments?
- Op: It will only take 15 minutes to get past your house. If you're thinking to going out maybe you could park your car on the road.
- Me: Happy to park on the road, however you and your 2 colleagues have 4 vans parked outside my house so there's no space for my car.
- Op: I'll shift one of the vans to make a space for you.
So all goes well, but I'm slightly curious what the duct is for. I currently have fibre to the cabinet internet connection with TalkTalk, using the BT cabinet about 100m down the road. I live in a cul-de-sac in a housng estate so the duct can only be for domestic 'fibre to the premisis' use. So does anyone know how this works?
- Is it a stand alone network independent of the BT cabinet down the road?
- Is it a network for a single provider to use, or is it a shared resource?
- How does the fibre cable get from the duct to my house?
So who's cable was it?
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Apr 19, 2022 19:56:00 GMT
As an ex BT engineer , joined apprentice 1971 and did his ac transmission theory in 1974 I remember being pritty impressed with 128kb , isdn2 when it arrived. However when this magic broadband thingy that could possibly give a download speed of 2mb was proposed , down a bit of wet string copper wire. Well this was just nuts , it seemed to break all the rules of physics as I had been informed at collage. At the time big wealthy companies rented a thing called megastream of us, 2mb fed on special transverse screen cable or fibre at great expense. And any way what domestic customer would possibly want , need or use that kind of speed. Then on a course at Paul Street London I met a man who was fitting some of the first, so I asked what the average speed real world was and what was the customers thoughts .The reply was about 1mb and it was to slow, what!!!, to slow.I could not get my head around it , I was still on dail up, 20 ish kb. Now I get about 23mb, the wife said yesterday if the broadband speed did not improve here maybe we should move to a house where fttp was available.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Apr 19, 2022 20:40:23 GMT
So does anyone know how this works?
(looking to perhaps add a little local colour to bernythedolt's earlier reply) These guys were laying trunks and ducting in the vicinity a few months back: jurassic-fibre.com/can-i-get-jurassic-fibre/ (Initially it was Fujitsu liveried vans doing the work, but then the vans were branded 'Jurassic'.) I have dealings with a similar company (start-up competitor to KCOM). They also deliver FttP (Fibre to the Property) as opposed to to FttC (the Cabinet variant it seems you are currently on). So, assuming your guys are technically equivalent to their Northern cousins, then: a) yes - independent to the BT cabinetry / circuitry / network (right up to the point is isn't, wherever that might be) b) yes - typically 'single provider' (although that provider may trade under multiple brands to target various market segments) c1) (probably) they will need to dig up your drive / path / front lawn to get the fibre up to your property and then poke a whole through something to get it inside, or c2) (alternatively) they could adopt a handy power pole - mimicking the way BT provide cables from their telephone poles (Jurassic have an arrangement with Western Power, it seems). It could be someone else. FullFibre are another SW start-up; although they only undertake Wholesale activities, apparently. There has been a spate of 'regional' fibre providers in recent years. Personally, I don't see it ending well.
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Post by crabbyoldgit on Apr 19, 2022 20:59:23 GMT
Some years ago we watched a compeditor in amazement install a full fibre network by contractor in a local city centre at vast speed. They just cut an big angle grinder slot a couple of inches deep in the pavement poked the fibre in and poured a bit of black bitumin over the slot. A couple of years later the council pavered in the pavements to pedestrianies the area, good night network.
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agent69
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,042
Likes: 4,437
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Post by agent69 on Apr 19, 2022 21:18:03 GMT
There appears to have been a lot of people moaning on the forum recently, so thought I should join in. Living in the middle of Devon I accept that modern technology might be a bit late in arriving but:
I'm in the garden this morning painting a wall when I hear hammering and banging from the distance. Initially I ignore it, but as the noise gets closer I think I should investigate (It's not a very big wall but I'm a very lethargic painter). When I get out the front of the house I notice that the footpath is closed and that contractors are installing a duct. I approach one of the operatives and the conversation goes something like this:
- Me: Excuse me but do you mind me asking what you are doing
- Op: We're installing ducts for a new fibre optic cable
- Me: Is there any reason why we haven't been notified in advance about these works?
- Op: It's only a footpath closure so we don't need to notify.
- Me: look son, I've been working in the construction industry for 40 years, and have closed more roads and footpaths than you've had hot dinners. I know what the rules are so no need to try bullsh*t*ng me.
- Op: OK must have been an oversight on our part
- Me: So what happens if I want to get my car out of the drive while you have the footway dug up? I assume this scenario is covered in your method statement and risk assessments?
- Op: It will only take 15 minutes to get past your house. If you're thinking to going out maybe you could park your car on the road.
- Me: Happy to park on the road, however you and your 2 colleagues have 4 vans parked outside my house so there's no space for my car.
- Op: I'll shift one of the vans to make a space for you.
So all goes well, but I'm slightly curious what the duct is for. I currently have fibre to the cabinet internet connection with TalkTalk, using the BT cabinet about 100m down the road. I live in a cul-de-sac in a housng estate so the duct can only be for domestic 'fibre to the premisis' use. So does anyone know how this works?
- Is it a stand alone network independent of the BT cabinet down the road?
- Is it a network for a single provider to use, or is it a shared resource?
- How does the fibre cable get from the duct to my house?
So who's cable was it? There is no cable at the minute, just a duct in the footway.
If you build a house by an existing road all the electricity board need to do is dig a hole in the footpath and put a joint on the existing cable. From the joint they can run a tail into the new house. Can you do the same with a fibre cable? Having dug up a few during my career (one in Plymouth cost £250k to repair) I thought they can't just be jointed willy-nilly.
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Post by mfaxford on Apr 19, 2022 21:49:53 GMT
If it was installed by Virgin (or a subcontractor like Kelly), then it may well be Virgin-only, as per our our first house. If installed by Openreach, as per our current house last year, I believe it should be shareable by others, and not just BT. Subcontractor may also be doing work for BT (or another company) I've certainly come across Kelly doing BT work as well. If it's Openreach then I suspect they'll own the infrastructure and then lease it to other other ISPs similar to how they operate for Phone/ADSL (You may pay the phone bill to the likes of Sky/ Zen etc. but they'll then be paying part of the cost to BT). There is no cable at the minute, just a duct in the footway. If you build a house by an existing road all the electricity board need to do is dig a hole in the footpath and put a joint on the existing cable. From the joint they can run a tail into the new house. Can you do the same with a fibre cable? Having dug up a few during my career (one in Plymouth cost £250k to repair) I thought they can't just be jointed willy-nilly.
You can splice fibres to join them together (or repair) but you can't add a new connection to an existing fibre circuit in the same way they might for power/gas/electricity. The same would also apply for telephone circuits and ADSL back to the cab/exchange (each connection needs it's own pair of wires back to the active equipment. I think cable internet (Virgin) is different where a number of houses are on a single coax cable that daisy chains between a few properties. Fibre cables usually contain a large number of fibre cores (or more recently) a set of empty tubes that can then have fibre cores blown through them. Back when the cables were manufactured with glass fibres inside they might run a a few large cables down various streets from the local street cab / exchange / point of presence (pop) to a splice box and then splice smaller cables out from there. With blown fibre they can connect a set of tubes together down the various cable runs and then blow a set of fibre cores from one end (cab/exchange/pop) to the other (street splice box). (That's mostly based on my old experience doing networking between buildings on a site and between a few nearby sites)
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Post by bernythedolt on Apr 20, 2022 2:30:25 GMT
Having had FTTP installed in my current and previous houses, I'll take a stab... If it was installed by Virgin (or a subcontractor like Kelly), then it may well be Virgin-only, as per our our first house. If installed by Openreach, as per our current house last year, I believe it should be shareable by others, and not just BT. We went with BT as that was our only option initially, and they offered a decent incentive deal, but I know one neighbour has subsequently chosen Zen, meaning ours must be shareable. We found Openreach not particularly forthcoming, with no documentation provided to householders outlining their options. The bit I'm more confident about is your final question. If you opt for the faster service (FTTP), they will bury the fibreglass strand through your garden (or use existing ducting if available), pass it through a hole drilled into your house and terminate it in a small box on an interior wall. Tight radius curves present a problem (obviously glass doesn't bend well...), but the installers are skilled at overcoming most difficulties and will leave a good job. From the fibre termination box, a short Ethernet cable runs to your wireless router. They advise your router is sited reasonably near this terminator (as copper wire will attenuate the signal if too long). Beside me it is this lot who have installed the cables in the pavement. You can choose your own retail broadband provider. I won't be paying those prices, I'm struggling to use even 75Mbits/s 24 hours a day let alone full fibre. From experience they will get plenty of mugs switching to full fibre because their internet is 'running slow' only to find it is still slow after upgrading because it had nothing to do with the broadband speed!
Possibly, in some cases, but FTTP (fibre to the premises) was a godsend to us. Previously, on the old FTTC (fibre to the cabinet, with a long and tortuous run of copper from that cabinet), we were getting a paltry 8mbps. Now we get 100-150mbps, with the option to upgrade to 500mbps or 1,000mpbs if we wish. Our monthly outlay barely changed, perhaps went up by a couple of quid, that's all, but the difference in download speed is fantastic.
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Post by moonraker on Apr 20, 2022 7:28:04 GMT
This has been going on in my Berkshire town for several months, with "CityFibre" installing 5G cabling in new ducting often running close to that installed by Virgin? some years ago. There've been a few complaints about disruption, especially on key routes into/out of town. I winced when one of their vehicles left deep furrows in a verge close to my house, but a few days later this was filled in and the grass has almost recovered.
Whereas the Virgin? ducts ran down the pavement a foot from my lawn and drive, the 5G channels are the other side of the road, so I imagine any link to my house would involve cutting a channel across the road (and under my drive or lawn).
Must be costing CityFibre a great deal of money.
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Post by overthehill on Apr 20, 2022 8:13:27 GMT
Beside me it is this lot who have installed the cables in the pavement. You can choose your own retail broadband provider. I won't be paying those prices, I'm struggling to use even 75Mbits/s 24 hours a day let alone full fibre. From experience they will get plenty of mugs switching to full fibre because their internet is 'running slow' only to find it is still slow after upgrading because it had nothing to do with the broadband speed!
Possibly, in some cases, but FTTP (fibre to the premises) was a godsend to us. Previously, on the old FTTC (fibre to the cabinet, with a long and tortuous run of copper from that cabinet), we were getting a paltry 8mbps. Now we get 100-150mbps, with the option to upgrade to 500mbps or 1,000mpbs if we wish. Our monthly outlay barely changed, perhaps went up by a couple of quid, that's all, but the difference in download speed is fantastic.
Yes, it's progress for most and the prices will gradually come down, I can't see any options on MSE yet except Virgin. This is infinitely better than Virgin as you're not locked in to a single provider's pricing trap and they also used to screw up your phone line which was costly to rectify when you left them. Will they be forced to change?
For speed, originally it was how far you were from the nearest BT switch station, then how far you were from the fibre cabinet and how good your 50 year old copper wire into your house has survived ? My copper is currently via a disputed access pole in someone's garden that Openreach said wasn't safe to climb and nothing has been done about it for 2 years. They had to patch my cable halfway between my house and the pole. I expect to go offline at some point. I still get 75Mb/s which is more than enough for Torrent downloads!
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Apr 20, 2022 9:54:33 GMT
So all goes well, but I'm slightly curious what the duct is for. I currently have fibre to the cabinet internet connection with TalkTalk, using the BT cabinet about 100m down the road. I live in a cul-de-sac in a housng estate so the duct can only be for domestic 'fibre to the premisis' use. So does anyone know how this works?
- Is it a stand alone network independent of the BT cabinet down the road?
- Is it a network for a single provider to use, or is it a shared resource?
- How does the fibre cable get from the duct to my house?
We've had BT FTTP for a few years now. We don't have street cabinets - we're direct to the (sub-)exchange a couple of wire-miles and a river away. Non-BT fibre is widespread now. It's basically going back to the days of cable TV, when there were 97 suppliers who quickly all went bust and agglomerated into NTL. Yes, it'll be independent of the BT infrastructure. Yes, it'll be single-provider. You can continue to buy over BT copper from BT or any over-BT supplier, or you can soon buy over FTTP from this new lot, too. When you sign up, they string another bit of fibre from street to house. The BT fibre runs on phone poles overground, with little black plastic torpedos on the poles for jointing. When we signed up, for £75 install fee, they replaced two poles, and ran a fibre across a field to the house, round the house, through a newly drilled hole in the wall, to the interior fibre termination modem. That's connected to the normal BT HomeHub router via normal network patch lead. They're currently threatening to take our copper phone line away, and move our landline to digital over broadband. NOT HAPPY. We have zero mobile signal, so any broadband or power wobble will leave us phoneless. Unfortunately, this is an OFCOM driven thing which will apply to the whole country by 2025. However, it has currently gone on hold...
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