iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Oct 30, 2023 16:37:00 GMT
<snip> Now we have large numbers trained abroad and as I said the AVERAGE salary is £163,900 meaning some earn less and some more. Ummm... I must be missing something... even your own linked data shows that Salaried GPs' earnings at somewhat less than the £164k figure, at £101k 
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 30, 2023 17:07:30 GMT
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 30, 2023 19:09:11 GMT
Maybe now but historically they want to keep the numbers down in order to increase even further their pay and conditions. They are probably the most powerful union ever to exist in this country.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 30, 2023 19:17:03 GMT
<snip> Now we have large numbers trained abroad and as I said the AVERAGE salary is £163,900 meaning some earn less and some more. Ummm... I must be missing something... even your own linked data shows that Salaried GPs' earnings at somewhat less than the £164k figure, at £101k Are there more GPs earning £163K on average or 101K ? If you're trying to be impartial here which clearly you are not, then why not use the weighted average ? Do you live in the UK by the way ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 30, 2023 19:58:56 GMT
by my calculation, applying the uplift in 22 and 23 settlements to the 101.3 and 163.9 numbers (a step that seems to have missed out entirely in the hand bag slinging), then I would make the weighted average in 2023 as £144.7k
I make not comment on that number, just stating it to clear the air.
EDIT: of course the partner numbers make an assumption about settlement uplifts being passed on to partners. I have not the slightest clue, and make no claim to know, whether that is actually true, or whether for example partners have had to sacrifice renumeration to assist with costs of provision. Or the other way round.
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Oct 30, 2023 20:35:31 GMT
by my calculation, applying the uplift in 22 and 23 settlements to the 101.3 and 163.9 numbers (a step that seems to have missed out entirely in the hand bag slinging), then I would make the weighted average in 2023 as £144.7k I make not comment on that number, just stating it to clear the air. EDIT: of course the partner numbers make an assumption about settlement uplifts being passed on to partners. I have not the slightest clue, and make no claim to know, whether that is actually true, or whether for example partners have had to sacrifice renumeration to assist with costs of provision. Or the other way round. The fact that my local GP surgery cannot recruit partners seems like it is not attractive to doctors whatever the expected pay rate is.
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iRobot
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Post by iRobot on Oct 30, 2023 21:48:39 GMT
Are there more GPs earning £163K on average or 101K ? If you're trying to be impartial here which clearly you are not, then why not use the weighted average ? Do you live in the UK by the way ? I introduced a second figure because it appeared you had fixated on a single figure. ~ why didn't you use the weighted average? ~ I don't understand how impartiality comes into it? (Or why you might think I had a lack of it on this subject. Could you explain, please?) Yes, I live in the UK. ~ why do you ask? (I'm pretty sure the math would be the same wherever I was domiciled   )
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Oct 30, 2023 22:04:59 GMT
Are there more GPs earning £163K on average or 101K ? If you're trying to be impartial here which clearly you are not, then why not use the weighted average ? Do you live in the UK by the way ? I introduced a second figure because it appeared you had fixated on a single figure. ~ why didn't you use the weighted average? ~ I don't understand how impartiality comes into it? (Or why you might think I had a lack of it on this subject. Could you explain, please?) Yes, I live in the UK. ~ why do you ask? (I'm pretty sure the math would be the same wherever I was domiciled ) Perhaps I'm not impartial on this subject. I just wish there were more GPs and I wish they were treated in a similar way to many other scientists and technologists rather than being put on a pedestal. £143K seems to be the broad average and that is a heck of a salary IMO. I hope you don't need the services of an NHS GP anytime soon.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 31, 2023 8:40:46 GMT
Maybe now but historically they want to keep the numbers down in order to increase even further their pay and conditions. They are probably the most powerful union ever to exist in this country. No, historically the number being trained within the UK has always been capped by the government. And, surely, it's the current situation that's the relevant one? Anyway, the number of GPs working in the UK has been falling for years - and the medical profession has been warning of that looming crisis for years. There's one VERY obvious cause for the decline over the last seven years or so - www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2482But it's much more than that - www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001npb4The gap (not just in general practice) is being filled by people being brought in from countries that need medical skills, and who are working in unacceptable conditions - www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001cx34Yet this government refuses to actually do anything about it.
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Post by moonraker on Oct 31, 2023 11:32:42 GMT
This morning at 0926 and 0928 I had separate "appointment letters" sent by text dated today for a telephone appointment yesterday afternoon. Luckily I had happened to have been able to take the call.(The telephone discussion was excellent.)
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 31, 2023 12:27:08 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Oct 31, 2023 13:49:48 GMT
This morning at 0926 and 0928 I had separate "appointment letters" sent by text dated today for a telephone appointment yesterday afternoon. Luckily I had happened to have been able to take the call.(The telephone discussion was excellent.) at least they are being sent by text and not door to door on the back of a snail, which seems to be the norm for so much of health service communication. A year and a half ago I turned up at a hospital appointment (this was at some point in the pandemic). It seemed a bit 'quiet' in the units reception area (though it isn't normally bustling). Nurse pops into reception looking a bit quizzical. Gets the "receptionist" from whatever they were doing. My appointment had been cancelled, I said I hadn't heard, nurse queries receptionist who confirms the letter would have gone out the day before. Right. I think they may have tried to call me and left a vmail. But the "receptionist" (for it was she) had such appallingly unintelligible English that you could barely understand what she was saying when F2F, let alone when leaving an utterly garbled vmail of which not even the words "appointment" or "NHS" or name of the hospital were recognisable, if they were used.
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Post by brightspark on Oct 31, 2023 17:11:06 GMT
The question that needs to be asked first is what is the "purpose" of the NHS. Then it can be decided if it is "fit". Rationalisation is required so that funding is spread equitably and public expectations satisfied.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 31, 2023 17:15:03 GMT
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Post by brightspark on Oct 31, 2023 17:43:00 GMT
Aspirations but not terribly helpful.
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) 