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Post by martin44 on Apr 14, 2023 21:49:38 GMT
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Apr 14, 2023 22:31:03 GMT
I think the BMA is part of the problem. For more than half a century they have kept the number of doctors being trained as low as possible in order to keep their salaries and status as high as possible.
We need to train more doctors and nurses.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Apr 15, 2023 10:07:53 GMT
As the son of a nurse, the son of an Ambulance driver, husband of a nurse, father of a care worker, and brother of a medical secretary, I probably have a better insight than most.
The NHS is ripped off right left and centre, they pay £800 for a PC that I working in local Government could get for £500 ( and I think we overpaid )
I used to go to staples on a regular basis to buy files because I could get then for 20P the NHS was paying £1 for the exact same item.
at one point BT charged the NHS £2000 more to install a phone line than it charged the local authority even it the termination point was the same.
my sister helped in setting up a nightingale hospital, and was working 60-70 hour weeks, some of the other medical secretaries "worked to rule" and basically sat around for months as no routine appointments were undertaken.
The Local hospital introduced a car parking scheme, if you didn't have a parking permit you had to park over a mile away and get the bus in.
the letters were emailed out and responses were taken on a first come first served basis.
Most of the admin staff got parking near the hospital, doctors and nurses with no instant access to emails were in the park and ride, except the park and ride didn't start till 8am ( early shift for nurses starts at 7 ) Finished at 18:30 late nurses finish at 23:00. even nurses whose job involved home visits couldn't get a space near the hospital. Eventually after a lot of kicking off by Doctors and Nurses was the scheme changed.
Up the road from is lives an NHS employee, she has an NHS lease car as part of her contract, the last car went back with just over 10,000 miles on the clock in 3 years !
yes it needs root and branch reform we need more specialist Nurses we need more doctors, we need less bed managers and 18/26 week monitors we need better IT systems, it is ridiculous that some Nurses can spend 1/2 of each shift typing data into forms.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 15, 2023 10:24:02 GMT
As the son of a nurse, the son of an Ambulance driver, husband of a nurse, father of a care worker, and brother of a medical secretary, I probably have a better insight than most. The NHS is ripped off right left and centre, they pay £800 for a PC that I working in local Government could get for £500 ( and I think we overpaid ) I used to go to staples on a regular basis to buy files because I could get then for 20P the NHS was paying £1 for the exact same item. at one point BT charged the NHS £2000 more to install a phone line than it charged the local authority even it the termination point was the same. my sister helped in setting up a nightingale hospital, and was working 60-70 hour weeks, some of the other medical secretaries "worked to rule" and basically sat around for months as no routine appointments were undertaken. The Local hospital introduced a car parking scheme, if you didn't have a parking permit you had to park over a mile away and get the bus in. the letters were emailed out and responses were taken on a first come first served basis. Most of the admin staff got parking near the hospital, doctors and nurses with no instant access to emails were in the park and ride, except the park and ride didn't start till 8am ( early shift for nurses starts at 7 ) Finished at 18:30 late nurses finish at 23:00. even nurses whose job involved home visits couldn't get a space near the hospital. Eventually after a lot of kicking off by Doctors and Nurses was the scheme changed. Up the road from is lives an NHS employee, she has an NHS lease car as part of her contract, the last car went back with just over 10,000 miles on the clock in 3 years ! yes it needs root and branch reform we need more specialist Nurses we need more doctors, we need less bed managers and 18/26 week monitors we need better IT systems, it is ridiculous that some Nurses can spend 1/2 of each shift typing data into forms. Interestingly, you could take a number of elements of the above and replace 'NHS' with '<xxxx> Police Force'.
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Post by moonraker on Apr 17, 2023 9:47:55 GMT
With a third of a million appointments, including operations (some vital), cancelled last week the NHS is not fit for purpose. Staff morale must be very low after the pressures of Covid and trying to catch up with the backlogs of treatment - which are now worsening.
Nearly all the media coverage that I've seen has focussed on the strikers, and I've seen very little about those staff who opted not to strike, nor about those who have to cope with the dismay, anger and distress of patients whose appointments have been cancelled. And what about the breakdown of trust between patients and "junior doctors" - how did some of the latter feel when they saw their high-risk patients for the first time after four days on the picket lines?
Despite the apparent tenor of the above two paragraphs, my (qualified) sympathies are mostly with the strikers, though I don't like to see them laughing and cheering on picket lines as their patients suffer.
This year I've had five NHS appointments within a reasonable time-scale and so far am satisfied with my treatment. In January my GP airily dismissed my suggestion that I could "go private", as did a consultant earlier this month, but next week I'm due to meet a mostly-private consultant who attends my NHS clinic one morning a week. I'll be asking him a question that he can't positively answer: "can you guarantee I'll have the operation in x months times" - and "what can I expect if I don't".
Luckily for me, three fixed-rate deposit accounts mature in July and the proceeds should be more than enough to fund private treatment. The vast majority of people are not in such a fortunate position.
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benaj
Member of DD Central
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Post by benaj on Apr 17, 2023 14:24:10 GMT
It’s true the NHS is under pressure. Can it cope? or is it a post code lottery? researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7281/CBP-7281.pdfMy last visit to the A&E was ok, the patient is in the high risk age group, seen within 45 mins and then 3 hours wait to see the doctor in middle of the Sunday night. The patient was discharged 13 hours later. What about the pay? The doctor I know personally is currently working as a consultant, and I have been told he could get his 3x wages if he could relocate in another part of the world desperately needing health professionals. |
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mogish
Member of DD Central
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Post by mogish on Apr 17, 2023 16:07:41 GMT
Cut back on the waste, the overpriced contracts , the inefficient work practices , the missed appointment customers..... if not I can only see chargeable consultations as the possible future.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 17, 2023 17:35:20 GMT
What about the pay? The doctor I know personally is currently working as a consultant, and I have been told he could get his 3x wages if he could relocate in another part of the world desperately needing health professionals. Quite possible. But will he get the same pension benefits, and has the value of that been fully factored in ? I suspect the answers to that are 'no' and 'no'. I personally think there is a strong case to stop public sector DB schemes. Have everyone go onto DC schemes with suitable adjustments in salary to compensate. On multiple grounds.
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Greenwood2
Member of DD Central
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Post by Greenwood2 on Apr 17, 2023 19:01:19 GMT
Maybe it is time for it to go private with payback for people who can't afford to pay. It does seem a bit daft that rich people don't pay for treatment on the NHS. Or maybe they go private anyway. The middle classes who could afford private maybe should?
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Apr 17, 2023 20:26:23 GMT
Maybe it is time for it to go private with payback for people who can't afford to pay. It does seem a bit daft that rich people don't pay for treatment on the NHS. Or maybe they go private anyway. The middle classes who could afford private maybe should? The option of going private in the UK is not ideal either. The private sector is very small and seems to me to be largely set up to perform "safe" routine operations in clinics they call hospitals. It certainly couldn't cope with replacing NHS GPs. Yes there are a few private ones dotted around and especially in larger cities but they are very expensive, typically not close by and I wonder if they have all the facilities and infrastructure (buildings and machinery), required to offer a first class service? Maybe we should look in more detail at what the french, the germans etc are doing ?
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travolta
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Post by travolta on Apr 17, 2023 20:47:49 GMT
Far too many of us abuse it.
A refundable charge should be the norm .
Many things could be sorted by a trip to the chemist or losing weight .
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keitha
Member of DD Central
2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Apr 17, 2023 22:50:57 GMT
And that is one of the problems GPs round here are being told not to fat shame obese patients as it's not good for their mental health.
I was in a local chemist the other day and a large guy opened his bag of medication and dumped them on the counter transferred some into another bag and started effing and blinding at the pharmacist for not giving him the right medication. the pharmacist explained that the Doctor has written the prescription for generic rather than name brand drugs and that they are the same formulation ( I know this is true, all medication has a code, if A and B have the same code it is the same drug ) The guy insisted that the generics don't work. Ended with the pharmacist asking him to leave.
but yes many people could do something to help themselves, eg lose a little weight, change the diet a little, walk to the shop instead of taking the car.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2023 5:51:56 GMT
I'm always interested in how we like charge rich people more
Public schools. People pay their taxes, and pay for their kids to go to private schools. Now a party has decided the rich should pay more for the privilege.
Health service. People pay their taxes, and pay for private insurance.
No one ever suggests these same people should get any money back for not consuming the school or health resources of the general public.
I do believe that charitable status should be removed completely from the whole UK system. For too long the tax break has hidden in plain sight with every local club considering it a perk.
Electoral suicide perhaps, but really.
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 18, 2023 6:37:02 GMT
I'm always interested in how we like charge rich people more Public schools. People pay their taxes, and pay for their kids to go to private schools. Now a party has decided the rich should pay more for the privilege.
Health service. People pay their taxes, and pay for private insurance. No one ever suggests these same people should get any money back for not consuming the school or health resources of the general public. I do believe that charitable status should be removed completely from the whole UK system. For too long the tax break has hidden in plain sight with every local club considering it a perk. Electoral suicide perhaps, but really. I'm not understanding this. Aren't your two statements a contradiction ? As far as I understood it, Labour's proposal for the private schools is "simply" that they should have charitable status removed ? Which of course would have the consequence of putting fees up. But that is what you are saying should happen anyway ? Have I missed something ?
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 18, 2023 6:53:28 GMT
Maybe it is time for it to go private with payback for people who can't afford to pay. It does seem a bit daft that rich people don't pay for treatment on the NHS. Or maybe they go private anyway. The middle classes who could afford private maybe should? But in the vast majority of cases they do pay, or have paid: by virtue that the majority of "rich people" got that way through earning more and paying significantly greater amounts of tax as a result. You can make a similar argument as to why is the basic state pension universal and not means tested. The universal state pension is one of those quid pro quos for those on higher incomes: they generally accept the necessity of paying income tax and NI, but want something back for it. If you take away the universal state pension then the big hanging question is then "why am I paying all this NI and income tax ?". Exactly the same would be true if there a free-at-point-of-use NHS, by definition funded in the majority by those who are better off but who have to then pay extra to use it. Personally I think the whole NHS funding and provision model is now irreparably broken, and almost certainly needs replacing by something akin to one of or variant of a continental "social" health care system. That would involve payments at point of use, including contributions out of own pocket but the majority from some form of insurance which would be partly directly funded by individuals. Different models and specifics in different countries, but these systems work in providing health care to all and providing quality health care. The NHS has some good structural aspects: negotiation power with big pharma; the ability to quickly muster for large scale trials (see Covid) for example. There is no reason why those babies have to necessarily be thrown out with the bath water. But in terms of delivery of quality health care to the masses it is surely a busted flush. And no I do not believe that the answer is "we don't spend enough" GDP on healthcare is not massively out of whack with similar countries. Perhaps we should spend a bit more, but not while the system is as it is.
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