benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 18, 2023 8:06:43 GMT
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Post by moonraker on Apr 18, 2023 8:43:19 GMT
The option of going private in the UK is not ideal either. The private sector is very small and seems to me to be largely set up to perform "safe" routine operations in clinics they call hospitals. It certainly couldn't cope with replacing NHS GPs. Yes there are a few private ones dotted around and especially in larger cities but they are very expensive, typically not close by and I wonder if they have all the facilities and infrastructure (buildings and machinery), required to offer a first class service? Maybe we should look in more detail at what the french, the germans etc are doing ? The "private" operation that I'm contemplating is complex and offered by only a few NHS and private hospitals (though the "mortality" risk is low).
On Radio Four yesterday a GP was explaining how she mixed private and NHS work, the former allowing her to spend more time with a patient (increasing job satisfaction) but not offering her a pension or holidays (which, of course, she gets from the NHS).
Some of us may remember the TV sit-com of the 1980s, "Don't Wait Up", starring Nigel Havers and Tony Britton. Tom Latimer is a young GP, his father Toby is a Harley Street consultant, who in one episode helps out at his son's NHS GP clinic. Tom is horrified when Toby starts off one appointment with a patient by ushering her to a chair, offering her a cup of tea and making small-talk, rather than straightaway asking "What's the matter?"
Back in January, my NHS GP did devote more than 20 minutes to me (not that there were many other patients waiting), including a diatribe about the Government and individual Ministers (with which I mainly agreed) and an impromptu cognitive test when I mentioned in passing that my short-term memory was bad. (The only question I didn't answer correctly was who was the current Health Minister- which was understandable, given the recent frequent Ministerial reshuffles).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2023 14:45:04 GMT
I'm always interested in how we like charge rich people more Public schools. People pay their taxes, and pay for their kids to go to private schools. Now a party has decided the rich should pay more for the privilege.
Health service. People pay their taxes, and pay for private insurance. No one ever suggests these same people should get any money back for not consuming the school or health resources of the general public. I do believe that charitable status should be removed completely from the whole UK system. For too long the tax break has hidden in plain sight with every local club considering it a perk. Electoral suicide perhaps, but really. I'm not understanding this. Aren't your two statements a contradiction ? As far as I understood it, Labour's proposal for the private schools is "simply" that they should have charitable status removed ? Which of course would have the consequence of putting fees up. But that is what you are saying should happen anyway ? Have I missed something ? No, I think all charitable status should be removed from all organisations.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 18, 2023 14:48:12 GMT
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Post by bracknellboy on Apr 18, 2023 16:44:17 GMT
I'm not understanding this. Aren't your two statements a contradiction ? As far as I understood it, Labour's proposal for the private schools is "simply" that they should have charitable status removed ? Which of course would have the consequence of putting fees up. But that is what you are saying should happen anyway ? Have I missed something ? No, I think all charitable status should be removed from all organisations. OK, that is what I thought you meant, as you have said as much before. I just couldn't square it with what I took to be a criticism of proposals to remove charitable status from private schools resulting in higher costs to those that use them. On the general topic of removal of all charitable status. I have some sympathy with this, after all businesses often vie for contracts with charities these days, so why should the charities have a competitive upper hand. I also recognise that a lot of charities are somewhat dubious, and the charities commission does a lousy job of policing them (I'm sure there is a resources issue there). But I'm not convinced those are reasons for abolishing charitable status as a concept. There are huge numbers of charities that do good stuff that I'm simply not sure how it would get picked up by other bodies if they had that status and the benefits that come with it. Its not just the financial benefits (incentives for people to donate to charity). Britain has a strong tradition of volunteering: would people who currently volunteer for a charity do so if it was in effect not differentiated from any other business ? Its not just big charities either, some small ones do very valuable work at a local level.
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Post by moonraker on Apr 18, 2023 17:24:28 GMT
I donate (generously, I think) to various organisations that are registered charities, prompted by the Gift Aid benefits to them and to me. I very seldom donate to non-charities.
I don't donate to my former private school, though I'm reasonably proud of it and like re-visiting the locality - mainly because of the countryside. It has a reputation for offering a wide range extra-curricular activities that may well be beneficial to the development of the pupils but seem lavish.
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Apr 18, 2023 18:28:42 GMT
Charitable status should be far harder to get
We have 3 allotment societies one has somehow got charitable status, this means the members can get seed, Compost etc VAT free, members fees count as charitable donations so qualify for gift aid.
there was a charity locally ( Closed down a couple of years ago ) the last set of accounts I saw were something like Income £200,000 Wages £140,000 Expenses £20,000, Costs £20,000, used for aims of charity £20,000. the charity had 2 paid employees the chief exec and his Assistant.
It collapsed after locals realised that the founder / chief exec was taking 50P in every £ raised in Wages, and that only 10P in the £ was spent on the actual work of the charity
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michaelc
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Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Apr 18, 2023 19:45:56 GMT
The option of going private in the UK is not ideal either. The private sector is very small and seems to me to be largely set up to perform "safe" routine operations in clinics they call hospitals. It certainly couldn't cope with replacing NHS GPs. Yes there are a few private ones dotted around and especially in larger cities but they are very expensive, typically not close by and I wonder if they have all the facilities and infrastructure (buildings and machinery), required to offer a first class service? Maybe we should look in more detail at what the french, the germans etc are doing ? The "private" operation that I'm contemplating is complex and offered by only a few NHS and private hospitals (though the "mortality" risk is low).
On Radio Four yesterday a GP was explaining how she mixed private and NHS work, the former allowing her to spend more time with a patient (increasing job satisfaction) but not offering her a pension or holidays (which, of course, she gets from the NHS).
Some of us may remember the TV sit-com of the 1980s, "Don't Wait Up", starring Nigel Havers and Tony Britton. Tom Latimer is a young GP, his father Toby is a Harley Street consultant, who in one episode helps out at his son's NHS GP clinic. Tom is horrified when Toby starts off one appointment with a patient by ushering her to a chair, offering her a cup of tea and making small-talk, rather than straightaway asking "What's the matter?"
Back in January, my NHS GP did devote more than 20 minutes to me (not that there were many other patients waiting), including a diatribe about the Government and individual Ministers (with which I mainly agreed) and an impromptu cognitive test when I mentioned in passing that my short-term memory was bad. (The only question I didn't answer correctly was who was the current Health Minister- which was understandable, given the recent frequent Ministerial reshuffles).
If its a "set piece" operation our private system can often offer it even if complex. But good luck going private if you're dying from pneumonia, covid, flu or some tropical disease you picked up. Have a baby that needs the highest level incubator? Even the top private children's hospital in London (forgot the name) doesn't have a level 4 nicu. And really, without a blood bank, emergency facilities, crash teams and rather more than a single junior doctor on call out of List hours, how can a private clinic be as safe as a hospital ? I realised after writing this that perhaps I shouldn't be scaring you but I'm sure you'll read this as just another random bod on the internet so won't take it too personally and individually I doubt the above has that much baring on your success. But if you do have the option of using a private wing in an NHS hospital (sometimes they're hospitals within their own right on the grounds of the larger NHS campus) I'd do that. Just in case......
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daveb
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Post by daveb on Apr 18, 2023 19:54:24 GMT
I think the BMA is part of the problem. For more than half a century they have kept the number of doctors being trained as low as possible in order to keep their salaries and status as high as possible. We need to train more doctors and nurses. They haven't done much of a job then, since there has been a massive expansion in medical school places and a fall in real wages.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 18, 2023 20:12:53 GMT
I think the BMA is part of the problem. For more than half a century they have kept the number of doctors being trained as low as possible in order to keep their salaries and status as high as possible. We need to train more doctors and nurses. They haven't done much of a job then, since there has been a massive expansion in medical school places and a fall in real wages. You beat me to it. The BMA have been USELESS in terms of protecting doctors' salaries and status.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Apr 18, 2023 20:16:58 GMT
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Apr 18, 2023 20:25:14 GMT
Unfortunately there are record numbers leaving (other jobs, other countries, non-NHS work) before they get past the junior ranks these days (and for a consultant your junior ranks are usually 10 years plus on top of 6 years in medical school)
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Apr 18, 2023 21:01:10 GMT
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hazellend
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Post by hazellend on Apr 18, 2023 21:36:55 GMT
I think the BMA is part of the problem. For more than half a century they have kept the number of doctors being trained as low as possible in order to keep their salaries and status as high as possible. We need to train more doctors and nurses. The priority is to retain the doctors and nurses we have now, otherwise there will be nobody left to train the trainees.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 7:40:13 GMT
My sister in New Zealand ran into a massive girls night out party last week. 40 ex-English nurses in their late 20s all moved there in the last year for the better life style and money with fewer agressive "my rights" people.
Brits need to learn manners, pay good people well and stop whinging
Back on charities, I give roughly half my income to charities. I would happily give the same sum to any organisation which called itself "non-profit" or " social benefit" but I no longer believe the term "charity" is fit for purpose.
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