benaj
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Post by benaj on Sept 18, 2023 17:29:42 GMT
According to OWID, CO2 emissions per capita in 2021, Qatar is the worst per Capita, 35.6t while India is only 1.9t. For reference, UK is 5.2t and US is 14.9t. Zimbabwe is 0.7t. ourworldindata.org/co2/country/indiaOf course we can reduce the emissions per capita in the UK by over population! But I guess there’s something we don’t want. 🤣 Is there another metrics like CO2 emission per km2? |
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 18, 2023 17:37:05 GMT
Remember because of Covid 2020/2021 are probably outliers with a lot of businesses closed. certainly a lot less flights, car journeys etc
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 18, 2023 20:50:30 GMT
According to OWID, CO2 emissions per capita in 2021, Qatar is the worst per Capita, 35.6t while India is only 1.9t. For reference, UK is 5.2t and US is 14.9t. Zimbabwe is 0.7t. ourworldindata.org/co2/country/indiaOf course we can reduce the emissions per capita in the UK by over population! But I guess there’s something we don’t want. 🤣 Is there another metrics like CO2 emission per km2? I think 4 of the top 6 are gulf countries. I guess small populations and heavily reliant on the petrochemical industry
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 18, 2023 21:02:48 GMT
According to OWID, CO2 emissions per capita in 2021, Qatar is the worst per Capita, 35.6t while India is only 1.9t. For reference, UK is 5.2t and US is 14.9t. Zimbabwe is 0.7t. ourworldindata.org/co2/country/indiaOf course we can reduce the emissions per capita in the UK by over population! But I guess there’s something we don’t want. 🤣 Is there another metrics like CO2 emission per km2? I think 4 of the top 6 are gulf countries. I guess small populations and heavily reliant on the petrochemical industry dread to think how much CO2 produced o air condition stadia for the last football world cup
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 18, 2023 21:53:20 GMT
I think 4 of the top 6 are gulf countries. I guess small populations and heavily reliant on the petrochemical industry dread to think how much CO2 produced o air condition stadia for the last football world cup I'd better come clean on this one. I've flown Qatar Airways business class many times, so part of the 35.6t was probably me.
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 18, 2023 22:27:24 GMT
Meanwhile......... China, India et al spew out what they like, 1,000+ times more filth than the UK? And I believe just ONE major volcanic eruption pushes us back a decade or more? Don't all these measures cost us a fortune? For realistically FA effect on the planet from the UK? You know, the "Drop in the ocean" comparison? I think some perspective is required, pronto? realistically the UK is 1% of the emissions for a lot less than 1% of the populationper capita is the best way of looking at it China produces the most but per capita is half of the US the UK is around 1/3 that of the US per capita We are the 17th most polluting country out of 209, so we are hardly in a position to criticise others, we need to be taking the lead because at least 9 of the most polluting countries above us as sure as hell won't Telling the American people to reduce emissions is almost as guaranteed a vote loser as gun control per capita we are about 60th something need to happen if the planet is to remain habitable, we also need to remember as one of the leaders into the industrial revolution we are responsible for a good chunk of the historic rises I took my figures from www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-per-capita/Nevertheless, the US has been steadily reducing its fossil CO 2 emissions since 2005. It's worth looking at which countries are causing the problem, which are doing something positive and which aren't. 67% of the world's fossil CO 2 emissions comes from just six big polluters:- - 27% from the US, EU and Japan, each of whom has been steadily reducing their per-capita output in recent years. - 40% comes from just three countries, China, Russia and India. These three have been steadily increasing per-capita over the same timescale, and show no sign of abating. The UK's contribution of 1% is utterly trivial. Until those three get on board, whatever we do in the UK will remain utterly trivial. EDIT: PS. The UK isn't far short of 1% of the world's population.
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 18, 2023 22:36:42 GMT
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 19, 2023 8:04:17 GMT
- 40% comes from just three countries, China, Russia and India. These three have been steadily increasing per-capita over the same timescale, and show no sign of abating. Should we also consider their economic development across the period? Well, about 0.8%, so ignoring economic development, we're 25% over our proportion... But that's a proportion of a total that's WAY too high.
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benaj
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Post by benaj on Sept 19, 2023 9:36:08 GMT
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 19, 2023 9:54:33 GMT
Nevertheless, the US has been steadily reducing its fossil CO 2 emissions since 2005. It's worth looking at which countries are causing the problem, which are doing something positive and which aren't. 67% of the world's fossil CO 2 emissions comes from just six big polluters:- - 27% from the US, EU and Japan, each of whom has been steadily reducing their per-capita output in recent years. - 40% comes from just three countries, China, Russia and India. These three have been steadily increasing per-capita over the same timescale, and show no sign of abating. The UK's contribution of 1% is utterly trivial. Until those three get on board, whatever we do in the UK will remain utterly trivial. EDIT: PS. The UK isn't far short of 1% of the world's population. I would have thought that a fair system was one where everyone was entitled to polute by the same amount. Only in the entitled west could someone suggest that countries poluting at a rate of 20 are the good guys and people poluting at a rate of 5 are the problem.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 19, 2023 10:00:10 GMT
I would have thought that a fair system was one where everyone was entitled to polute by the same amount That amount being "as little as possible" would be nice, wouldn't it? I mean, if your next door neighbour threw all his rubbish around the place, you wouldn't use that as justification to chuck some of your own around - so long as it wasn't as much.
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Sept 19, 2023 10:15:41 GMT
I would have thought that a fair system was one where everyone was entitled to polute by the same amount I mean, if your next door neighbour threw all his rubbish around the place, you wouldn't use that as justification to chuck some of your own around - so long as it wasn't as much. Spot on.
Part of the problem is that polution is often associated with industrialisation. The phase that China and India are going through now is probably similar to the industrial revolution in Europe a couple of hundred years ago.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Sept 19, 2023 10:24:55 GMT
That amount being "as little as possible" would be nice, wouldn't it?I mean, if your next door neighbour threw all his rubbish around the place, you wouldn't use that as justification to chuck some of your own around - so long as it wasn't as much. Spot on. Yet here we are, with people in this thread using "But they do it at least as much" as justification for not changing their own ways. Very true. China has indeed built a shedload of coal power stations as short-term stopgaps. They're also putting in a shedload of renewable generation. June - www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/29/china-wind-solar-power-global-renewable-energy-leader"China is set to double its capacity and produce 1,200 gigawatts of energy through wind and solar power by 2025, reaching its 2030 goal five years ahead of time, according to the report by Global Energy Monitor, a San Francisco-based NGO that tracks operating utility-scale wind and solar farms as well as future projects in the country.
It says that as of the first quarter of the year, China’s utility-scale solar capacity has reached 228GW, more than that of the rest of the world combined."...yet here we are, using them as justification for not doing more in the UK. Of course, let's put that in proportion... "China could easily surpass its target of supplying a third of its power consumption through renewable sources by 2030."The UK is at 50% at this very moment, with 63% carbon neutral.
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keitha
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Post by keitha on Sept 19, 2023 10:27:15 GMT
I would have thought that a fair system was one where everyone was entitled to polute by the same amount That amount being "as little as possible" would be nice, wouldn't it? I mean, if your next door neighbour threw all his rubbish around the place, you wouldn't use that as justification to chuck some of your own around - so long as it wasn't as much. Actually I would support a carbon tax so everyone in the UK gets an allowance and you get a rebate if you use less than the amount and pay penalties if you use more Lets say for 2024 we set the limit at 5.25 Tonnes if you use 5 Tonnes you get a rebate, 5.5 Tonnes you pay and lets make it progressive so say 6.25 Tonnes costs £500, 7.25 £1,500, 8.25 £3,500 and so on. We certainly shouldn't have football teams flying from Manchester to Norwich or Leicester. Exporting Electricity from your solar Panels or wind turbine should get a credit, ditto energy from co-ops like Ripple .
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Post by bernythedolt on Sept 19, 2023 11:11:21 GMT
- 40% comes from just three countries, China, Russia and India. These three have been steadily increasing per-capita over the same timescale, and show no sign of abating. Should we also consider their economic development across the period? Where what's at stake is potentially mankind's survival, can we afford that luxury? 0.84% according to Worldometer, if you believe the official record. Given the unknown number of illegals here, the overstayers and those avoiding the census, the official figure is likely an underestimate and many believe our population is far higher. I understand consumption data from utility companies and supermarkets tend to support that too. But whether we are 25%, 20% or 15% over our proportion matters not - a little over a trivial amount is still a trivial amount. The UK's contribution remains utterly trivial.
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