registerme
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Post by registerme on Apr 30, 2024 15:33:41 GMT
This morning's hearing is worth watching if you want to see a lawyer squirm for a few hours. It's... not inspiring.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 2, 2024 19:52:09 GMT
Jarnail Singh is up tomorrow, which could make for an interesting day in court.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 2, 2024 22:24:05 GMT
Jarnail Singh is up tomorrow, which could make for an interesting day in court. is he the lawyer that was up before ?
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 2, 2024 22:37:41 GMT
Jarnail Singh is up tomorrow, which could make for an interesting day in court. is he the lawyer that was up before ? I think they've all been up before in one way or another, but tomorrow will be the first time I'll have seen him give evidence. And he was "head" of the part of the legal department in the PO that dealt with criminal prosecutions.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 2, 2024 22:48:29 GMT
is he the lawyer that was up before ? I think they've all been up before in one way or another, but tomorrow will be the first time I'll have seen him give evidence. And he was "head" of the part of the legal department in the PO that dealt with criminal prosecutions. Did a quick check on this thread. Yes he has been up before and he was the utter embodiment of of incompetence. I remember being pointed at the recording of his testimonybefore: it was the first of the inquiry testimony I went and looked at.. link
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Post by bracknellboy on May 3, 2024 12:03:05 GMT
I think they've all been up before in one way or another, but tomorrow will be the first time I'll have seen him give evidence. And he was "head" of the part of the legal department in the PO that dealt with criminal prosecutions. Did a quick check on this thread. Yes he has been up before and he was the utter embodiment of of incompetence. I remember being pointed at the recording of his testimonybefore: it was the first of the inquiry testimony I went and looked at.. linkso far, based on the 20 minutes I've just been watching, his performance is not noticeably improved from the first time around.....
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 3, 2024 12:45:23 GMT
Was looking at evidence given regarding the 2010 prosecution of Sub-postmistress Seema Misra. Prior to the case starting Gareth Jenkins (the Fujitsu man who appears to have been in charge of Horizon) provided an expert witness statement saying that data could not be maniputated remotely. A few days before the case started he also sent a report to the post office saying he could remotely correct the errors if that's what the PO wanted. The discussions with Jarnail Singh (senior PO lawyer involved with the prosecution) went something like this:
- JB (counsel for the enquiry) - Mr Sing, why did you disclose the expert witness statement (saying data could not be remotely changed) but not the report (saying it could be)
- JS - I never saw the report
- JB - Here's an email you were sent attaching the report
- JS - I never saw the email
- JB - Here's evidence that you saved the report on your computer, and also printed off a copy of the report
- JS - I don't recall doing any of that.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 3, 2024 12:57:50 GMT
At best he's completely useless and utterly out of his depth.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 3, 2024 13:48:48 GMT
At best he's completely useless and utterly out of his depth. so completely useless that I can't dismiss the idea that his level of uselessness might be deliberate smoke and mirrors to try and hide complicity
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james100
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Post by james100 on May 3, 2024 16:26:30 GMT
That doesn't look like genuine incompetence to me; more like a man focusing so hard on the defence script his solicitor has given him that he can't deviate from it even when it's utterly implausible. Like doubling down on the claim he didn't know how to save files even after 10 years working at POL because he didn't have that technical knowledge 'back in 2010'.  Jason Beer is so damn good at this. |
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 3, 2024 16:31:28 GMT
At best he's completely useless and utterly out of his depth. so completely useless that I can't dismiss the idea that his level of uselessness might be deliberate smoke and mirrors to try and hide complicity Is this coded speak for 'he's a lying b*st*rd'?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on May 3, 2024 16:36:47 GMT
That doesn't look like genuine incompetence to me; more like a man focusing so hard on the defence script his solicitor has given him ..... Just to remind people that the legal profession is never squeaky clean.
Reminds me of an ajudication case I was involved in many years ago. I attended a meeting with our legal expert and our proposed expert witness. The legal eagle looked at the expert and said 'I'm not allowed to put words in your mouth, but if I was these would be the words that I would use'. The expert said 'can you speak more slowly, I'm struggling to write all this down'.
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Post by bracknellboy on May 3, 2024 17:27:13 GMT
That doesn't look like genuine incompetence to me; more like a man focusing so hard on the defence script his solicitor has given him that he can't deviate from it even when it's utterly implausible. Like doubling down on the claim he didn't know how to save files even after 10 years working at POL because he didn't have that technical knowledge 'back in 2010'. Jason Beer is so damn good at this. I think I agree with that. There were so many glaring "internal contradictions", and denying the blindingly obvious. If I heard the phrase "decision makers" one more time I think I would have screamed. And yes, if I ever find myself in court, and "Jason Beer QC" is listed for the prosecution, I'll know I'm deep in the brown stuff.....
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james100
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Post by james100 on May 3, 2024 22:27:38 GMT
I am around 2:38 now and reading an email he wrote on not U-turning on prosecutions with the phrase "....it may send a green light for defendants to get hold of their member of parliament and result in copulation..."  Yes, incompetent too. An absolute muppet. |
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registerme
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Post by registerme on May 3, 2024 23:04:12 GMT
As much as I (currently) think that Singh deserves all the opprobrium he's receiving I can't help but think that he is as much a symptom as a cause.
How could anybody as obviously useless as he is have achieved the position he reached? How could any of the people who so manifestly can't take responsibility for anything have achieved positions of responsibility?
And, before I become (too) "holier than thou", I've worked for organisations where, had they been subject to the level of scrutiny that the PO is currently receiving, they would have been very, very uncomfortable. The staff too, and that could have included me.
Watching the Horizon inquiry unfold makes me reflect on all the conversations and email chains and... just busy corporate life I experienced. I was never involved in anything close to what is currently unfolding before us. But I did experience a few things that made me distinctly uncomfortable. Did I resolve them appropriately? I think so. Were they to be subject to this level of scrutiny would I still think so?
I'm not so sure.
I sometimes wonder that large organisations are simply impossible to manage to the standards that we (the public), shareholders, customers, staff, and the management expect of them.
What to do?
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