keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Dec 19, 2023 13:44:07 GMT
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michaelc
Member of DD Central
Say No To T.D.S.
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Post by michaelc on Dec 19, 2023 13:58:48 GMT
I don't really care what terms any other person wants to use to refer to this time of year. I think I can count on zero fingers the times a Jewish person has to told me I should, in the earlier part of December, greet them with Happy Hanukkah. And I've never had any Hindu or Sikh push Divali at me, even if I've made a point of celebrating it with them. Nor a muslim push Eid. So I'm not sure why - perhaps especially as an atheist - I should feel a need to push a Christian festival down their throats. Nor do I understand why anyone would see it as some 'threat' to their 'tradition' if someone else doesn't want to stick a particular religious label onto a time of year pertaining to 'their' cultural event. I do find it mystifying when people who proclaim to have strong cultural and/or religious convictions find it threatening/undermining when others don't behave according to their norms. As someone else once said: "It's that time of year when Christians demand the Jewish cashier say "Merry Christmas" to the Muslim customer"*
*Other religions and non-religions are available. If I lived in India I wouldn't go around insisting Hindus tell me Merry Christmas. Nobody is feeling "threatened". Gordon Bennet....
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Dec 19, 2023 14:25:13 GMT
I don't really care what terms any other person wants to use to refer to this time of year. I think I can count on zero fingers the times a Jewish person has to told me I should, in the earlier part of December, greet them with Happy Hanukkah. And I've never had any Hindu or Sikh push Divali at me, even if I've made a point of celebrating it with them. Nor a muslim push Eid. So I'm not sure why - perhaps especially as an atheist - I should feel a need to push a Christian festival down their throats. Nor do I understand why anyone would see it as some 'threat' to their 'tradition' if someone else doesn't want to stick a particular religious label onto a time of year pertaining to 'their' cultural event. I do find it mystifying when people who proclaim to have strong cultural and/or religious convictions find it threatening/undermining when others don't behave according to their norms. As someone else once said: "It's that time of year when Christians demand the Jewish cashier say "Merry Christmas" to the Muslim customer"*
*Other religions and non-religions are available. That is some tangent bracknellboy 
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Post by bernythedolt on Dec 19, 2023 15:01:58 GMT
I don't really care what terms any other person wants to use to refer to this time of year. I think I can count on zero fingers the times a Jewish person has to told me I should, in the earlier part of December, greet them with Happy Hanukkah. And I've never had any Hindu or Sikh push Divali at me, even if I've made a point of celebrating it with them. Nor a muslim push Eid. So I'm not sure why - perhaps especially as an atheist - I should feel a need to push a Christian festival down their throats. Nor do I understand why anyone would see it as some 'threat' to their 'tradition' if someone else doesn't want to stick a particular religious label onto a time of year pertaining to 'their' cultural event. I do find it mystifying when people who proclaim to have strong cultural and/or religious convictions find it threatening/undermining when others don't behave according to their norms. As someone else once said: "It's that time of year when Christians demand the Jewish cashier say "Merry Christmas" to the Muslim customer"*
*Other religions and non-religions are available. That is some tangent bracknellboy ...somewhere to the left of the woke-preachy Guardian! www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/22/better-to-say-merry-christmas-or-happy-holidays
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 19, 2023 15:08:07 GMT
I don't really care what terms any other person wants to use to refer to this time of year. I think I can count on zero fingers the times a Jewish person has to told me I should, in the earlier part of December, greet them with Happy Hanukkah. And I've never had any Hindu or Sikh push Divali at me, even if I've made a point of celebrating it with them. Nor a muslim push Eid. So I'm not sure why - perhaps especially as an atheist - I should feel a need to push a Christian festival down their throats. Nor do I understand why anyone would see it as some 'threat' to their 'tradition' if someone else doesn't want to stick a particular religious label onto a time of year pertaining to 'their' cultural event. I do find it mystifying when people who proclaim to have strong cultural and/or religious convictions find it threatening/undermining when others don't behave according to their norms. As someone else once said: "It's that time of year when Christians demand the Jewish cashier say "Merry Christmas" to the Muslim customer"*
*Other religions and non-religions are available. If I lived in India I wouldn't go around insisting Hindus tell me Merry Christmas. Nobody is feeling "threatened". Gordon Bennet.... Really ? Then why do the conservative religious right in the USA get so much up in arms about this very issue (and other similar) ? Either they feel in some way culturally/religiously threatened, or assume they have a right to push demand for conformity to their norms down others throats. Neither of which is very nice (nor very 'Christian'). So I beg to differ.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 19, 2023 15:11:51 GMT
Hardly. We were on the subject of whether one should take offense or make judgement if others used alternative terms. Not on what terms one should use yourself. Two rather different things.
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Post by bernythedolt on Dec 19, 2023 15:47:42 GMT
[...] Nor do I understand why anyone would see it as some 'threat' to their 'tradition' if someone else doesn't want to stick a particular religious label onto a time of year pertaining to 'their' cultural event. [...] Why? Because it IS an extant threat to our culture and traditions. We are still nominally a Christian nation for now. For generations, our children and their parents have celebrated Christmas with displays like the nativity play, but some authorities have now banned them, lest they upset certain people. It's why Winterfest has replaced Christmas in some places. Sorry, but when in Rome and all that... I don't even blame the potentially "offended" people concerned, but the woke jobsworths poking their noses in supposedly on their behalf. Even the Muslim Council of Great Britain has said: "Who wants to ban Christmas? Not Muslims. None of us will be offended if you go ahead and enjoy the Christmas cheer". But that's not good enough for the woke misery squad. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rebranding-christmas-more-public-bodies-are-refusing-to-give-the-festival-its-name-for-fear-of-causing-offence-9923365.html
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 19, 2023 16:37:26 GMT
Nobody is feeling "threatened". Gordon Bennet.... Really...? Isn't that exactly what this whole thread's about? "Me, ME! It's all about ME! You have to do it the way I WANT! Any other view is much less important. I'll be VERY offended if you don't use the words I WANT TO HEAR!"
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daveb
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Post by daveb on Dec 19, 2023 17:10:20 GMT
I'm an atheist. I wish others "Merry Christmas" I don't notice (or care, if I do notice) whether others wish me "Merry Christmas" "Happy Holidays" or "Enjoy Saturnalia", OK I would notice the last one but assume it was a cheery joke rather than a full scale assault on my values.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 19, 2023 17:12:29 GMT
[...] Nor do I understand why anyone would see it as some 'threat' to their 'tradition' if someone else doesn't want to stick a particular religious label onto a time of year pertaining to 'their' cultural event. [...] Why? Because it IS an extant threat to our culture and traditions. We are still nominally a Christian nation for now. For generations, our children and their parents have celebrated Christmas with displays like the nativity play, but some authorities have now banned them, lest they upset certain people. It's why Winterfest has replaced Christmas in some places. Sorry, but when in Rome and all that... I don't even blame the potentially "offended" people concerned, but the woke jobsworths poking their noses in supposedly on their behalf. Even the Muslim Council of Great Britain has said: "Who wants to ban Christmas? Not Muslims. None of us will be offended if you go ahead and enjoy the Christmas cheer". But that's not good enough for the woke misery squad. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rebranding-christmas-more-public-bodies-are-refusing-to-give-the-festival-its-name-for-fear-of-causing-offence-9923365.htmlMaybe so, but all of that misses the point being discussed. If a pub decides to not refer to "Christmas" then they are probably fools. No-one should take offence at someone referring to "Christmas". Nor should anyone be banning nativity plays. But if a Jew or Muslim wishes to not use "Christmas" then why should I or anyone else take offence ? Because that is a threat to my culture ? Seriously, I don't buy that. After all, I wouldn't expect a nativity play to be run in a Jewish school or a synagogue.
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Post by bracknellboy on Dec 19, 2023 17:22:58 GMT
I'm an atheist. I wish others "Merry Christmas" I don't notice (or care, if I do notice) whether others wish me "Merry Christmas" "Happy Holidays" or "Enjoy Saturnalia", OK I would notice the last one but assume it was a cheery joke rather than a full scale assault on my values.
Quite. Merry Xmas to you as well.
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adrianc
Member of DD Central
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Post by adrianc on Dec 19, 2023 17:29:33 GMT
For generations, our children and their parents have celebrated Christmas with displays like the nativity play, but some authorities have now banned them, lest they upset certain people. It's why Winterfest has replaced Christmas in some places. Spoiler alert: Outside DailyMailFrothland, nobody has. The reality: www.projects.law.manchester.ac.uk/religion-law-and-the-constitution/wont-winterval-myth-die/Even the Daily Heil itself admitted it was a load of concocted codswallop... a dozen years ago. theweek.com/media/42231/myth-winterval-shattered-daily-mail-admits-errorAnyway, is the UK really "Christian"? If we're going to say "nominally a Christian nation", then we can surely only mean the established religion - Anglicanism. The UK is, of course, one of only two countries in the world with seats in the government reserved for clerics - the other is Iran. Less than 2/3 of a million people - 1% of the population - attend Church of England services weekly - and that's the CofE *boasting*, because it's gone up... Many more attend other Christian denominations - but they're largely immigrant communities. The majority of religious service attendance in the UK is non-Christian, while only 28% believe in (any) God "or other higher spiritual power", according to a 2016 YouGov poll.
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ethel
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Post by ethel on Dec 19, 2023 17:45:15 GMT
Wishing you all a cool Yule guys. Whatever you call it, have a good one. It was Cromwell and his Puritan chums who tried to ban Christmas. Didn't work then, won't work now.
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ozboy
Member of DD Central
Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Dec 19, 2023 20:57:30 GMT
Nobody is feeling "threatened". Gordon Bennet.... Really...? Isn't that exactly what this whole thread's about? "Me, ME! It's all about ME! You have to do it the way I WANT! Any other view is much less important. I'll be VERY offended if you don't use the words I WANT TO HEAR!"Your italicised quote would seem to fit exactly The PC Lefty Wokes?
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Post by bernythedolt on Dec 19, 2023 21:05:11 GMT
Really...? Isn't that exactly what this whole thread's about? "Me, ME! It's all about ME! You have to do it the way I WANT! Any other view is much less important. I'll be VERY offended if you don't use the words I WANT TO HEAR!"Your italicised quote would seem to fit exactly The PC Lefty Wokes? Interesting. I was just about to post that I would substitute adrianc 's italicised quote with... "We, the majority, it’s about us. We’d prefer those in positions of influence to acknowledge our culture and traditions please. Any other view is indeed less important, because by definition it’s a minority view, not shared by most of us. We will likely be offended if you attempt to reword, rename, bar or otherwise debase our longstanding customs."
The US went down this road to appeasement and now cannot erect a simple Christmas tree in many public spaces, airports, schools, etc, for fear of litigation from minorities intent on destroying these customs. I understand some employers require their customer-facing staff to desist from greeting "Merry Christmas". When America sneezes, we catch a cold and I’d prefer we nip it in the bud. Happy holidays? No thanks, they can keep it.
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