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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 25, 2024 11:07:35 GMT
Setting aside any views on the death penalty, I find it amazing that in a country where innocent people are killed so easily it appears almost impossible for the state to carry out the death penalty in an acceptable way.
Leaving aside the thought that I'm not sure there is any acceptable way to carry out a death penalty, this is probably partly a response to the ban drug companies have placed on supply of drugs for lethal injection purposes. Which is a good thing in my books (the ban that is).
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keitha
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2024, hopefully the year I get out of P2P
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Post by keitha on Jan 25, 2024 11:32:36 GMT
Setting aside any views on the death penalty, I find it amazing that in a country where innocent people are killed so easily it appears almost impossible for the state to carry out the death penalty in an acceptable way.
Air is 78% nitrogen. How big a leak from the mask he'd be wearing are they expecting? Article I read suggested he might struggle and cause the mask to leak but as you say it would need a hell of a leak to significantly alter the atmosphere in the room it the room is 10/10/10 then to decrease the oxygen content by 1% from 21% to 20% 21% of 1000 is 210 20% is 200 replace 10 cubic feet of oxygen with Nitrogen would mean replacing 50 cubic feet of the existing air with Nitrogen, and I'm sure that you need the oxygen concentration lower that 20% to have any effect
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 25, 2024 14:48:49 GMT
"Opponents say ... a leak could harm people present in the room."Air is 78% nitrogen. How big a leak from the mask he'd be wearing are they expecting? Article I read suggested he might struggle and cause the mask to leak but as you say it would need a hell of a leak to significantly alter the atmosphere in the room it the room is 10/10/10 then to decrease the oxygen content by 1% from 21% to 20% 21% of 1000 is 210 20% is 200 replace 10 cubic feet of oxygen with Nitrogen would mean replacing 50 cubic feet of the existing air with Nitrogen, and I'm sure that you need the oxygen concentration lower that 20% to have any effect that though assumes you get instant or near instant perfect within the room. Which I doubt you would. I think you would likely get higher localised concentrations initially before dispersal/mixing. That said, on the other hand you might need to get the oxygen level down to around 10% to get to 'dangerous' territory* *acknowledgement: Mr/Ms G
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Greenwood2
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Post by Greenwood2 on Jan 25, 2024 15:28:06 GMT
Setting aside any views on the death penalty, I find it amazing that in a country where innocent people are killed so easily it appears almost impossible for the state to carry out the death penalty in an acceptable way.
Leaving aside the thought that I'm not sure there is any acceptable way to carry out a death penalty, this is probably partly a response to the ban drug companies have placed on supply of drugs for lethal injection purposes. Which is a good thing in my books (the ban that is). Couldn't they just inject an overdose of morphine? Seems to be the way rogue doctors got rid of people. Why must it be so complicated, vets do it every day. Or are they trying to make it painful or slow as a punishment.
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 25, 2024 16:55:50 GMT
Why not a general anaesthetic? Followed by anything you like that causes death?
One of the concerns in the US seems to be about not causing suffering. But wouldn't breathing pure nitrogen be very similar to holding ones breath until death (if that was possible) ?
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agent69
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Post by agent69 on Jan 25, 2024 17:04:01 GMT
Why not a general anaesthetic? Followed by anything you like that causes death? One of the concerns in the US seems to be about not causing suffering. But wouldn't breathing pure nitrogen be very similar to holding ones breath until death (if that was possible) ? You would have thought that was the obvious thing to do, then stick their head in a big bucket of water. Painless and effective.
The man in question was convicted of murder in 1989, and has been on death row since 1996. They've already tried to execute him once before.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 25, 2024 17:09:32 GMT
Why not a general anaesthetic? Followed by anything you like that causes death? One of the concerns in the US seems to be about not causing suffering. But wouldn't breathing pure nitrogen be very similar to holding ones breath until death (if that was possible) ?If you've ever had the misfortune to find yourself unable to get oxygen into your lungs for any reason, I can tell you that oxygen starvation is a very long way from not being a "cruel and unusual punishment". Hence why waterboarding is used as a form of torture.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 26, 2024 9:14:28 GMT
The content is significantly worse than even the headline. Don't read this while having bacon for breakfast. Actually, perhaps that is a good time to read it. Workers sacked after film shows pigs ‘beaten to death with iron bar’ on RSPCA Assured farm
I have long thought that the "RSPCA Assured" label counted for very little. But worse, this was a farm that was also classified as free range, and supplied Tesco and Morrisons for the "Higher Welfare" label (which I've also always thought counted for not a lot). |
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 26, 2024 14:03:42 GMT
Why not a general anaesthetic? Followed by anything you like that causes death? One of the concerns in the US seems to be about not causing suffering. But wouldn't breathing pure nitrogen be very similar to holding ones breath until death (if that was possible) ?If you've ever had the misfortune to find yourself unable to get oxygen into your lungs for any reason, I can tell you that oxygen starvation is a very long way from not being a "cruel and unusual punishment". Hence why waterboarding is used as a form of torture. That comment is odd for two entirely different reasons. First, there is no disagreement and yet you seem to try to make it so. Get some fresh air ! Second, waterboarding as I understand it is about making someone fear that they might drown. It isn't about making them actually experience the physical pain of being deprived oxygen. Its the fear of that occurring (which could be even worse of course).
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 26, 2024 16:42:55 GMT
If you've ever had the misfortune to find yourself unable to get oxygen into your lungs for any reason, I can tell you that oxygen starvation is a very long way from not being a "cruel and unusual punishment". Hence why waterboarding is used as a form of torture. That comment is odd for two entirely different reasons. First, there is no disagreement and yet you seem to try to make it so. Get some fresh air ! Second, waterboarding as I understand it is about making someone fear that they might drown. It isn't about making them actually experience the physical pain of being deprived oxygen. Its the fear of that occurring (which could be even worse of course). That comment is odd because the phrase "holding one's breath until death" uses a simile of a voluntary action, de facto absent any of the panic and terror that comes from enforced oxygen starvation. If inadvertent then the chosen phrase may simply just not have been a good example to convey the intended meaning, emphasising as it does the voluntary nature of the process.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jan 26, 2024 16:47:41 GMT
How about carbon monoxide...?
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Post by bernythedolt on Jan 26, 2024 19:16:19 GMT
I recall a Horizon on the box in 2008, in which Michael Portillo was investigating the most humane method of execution. Hypoxia emerged as the most humane and I seem to remember him (I think it was him) saying that if he were to take his own life, moving the barbecue indoors could be a reasonable method. The theory goes that as it gradually absorbs the oxygen, you get drowsy with the hypoxia, fall asleep and then it's goodnight Vienna. Today's controversy over nitrogen-induced, supposedly 'euphoric', hypoxia got a mention too... wellcomecollection.org/works/j6m7c2dn |
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Post by captainconfident on Jan 26, 2024 19:21:10 GMT
Why not a general anaesthetic? Followed by anything you like that causes death? One of the concerns in the US seems to be about not causing suffering. But wouldn't breathing pure nitrogen be very similar to holding ones breath until death (if that was possible) ? Interested in the answer to this. Is it not possible to use a general anaesthetic because an element of suffering and spectacle is necessary in an American execution?
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 26, 2024 20:25:47 GMT
Why not a general anaesthetic? Followed by anything you like that causes death? One of the concerns in the US seems to be about not causing suffering. But wouldn't breathing pure nitrogen be very similar to holding ones breath until death (if that was possible) ? Interested in the answer to this. Is it not possible to use a general anaesthetic because an element of suffering and spectacle is necessary in an American execution? Me too. Could it be that if they used a GA then those drugs might be at supply risk to hospitals ? Presumably there's a bit in the licence agreement that says "not to be used to kill people..."
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michaelc
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Post by michaelc on Jan 26, 2024 22:30:14 GMT
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