|
|
Post by solicitorious on Feb 17, 2015 19:30:40 GMT
I notice the largest investor so far, and possibly the first, weighed in with £509k anonymously and is based in Stockport. Excuse my naivety, if this question is inappropriate, but is there anyone on the AC team who needs to make some sort of disclosure?
|
|
ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 857
|
Post by ramblin rose on Feb 17, 2015 19:54:41 GMT
I notice the largest investor so far, and possibly the first, weighed in with £509k anonymously and is based in Stockport. Excuse my naivety, if this question is inappropriate, but is there anyone on the AC team who needs to make some sort of disclosure? That particular investment was £50K lower at the very start. It's very normal for these pitches to start up with immediate large investments from people close to the company. Sometimes they are open about who they are, but often also anonymous. It could be a family member or friend, for example, and I don't see why they would need to make declarations. I'd be hugely surprised if that, and the other large amounts, which were also there right at the start, weren't in some way close to Assetz.
|
|
tonyr
Member of DD Central
Posts: 477 
Likes: 258
|
Post by tonyr on Feb 17, 2015 19:55:25 GMT
I freely admit I've never done anything quite like this before so may have misunderstood. This seems not to be equity raising, but instead an opportunity to make what is in effect, an unsecured loan to AC at ~10% a year. "Interest" will be paid for a maximum of 2 years only. AC might decide to keep my money longer than 2 years. If they keep it for less than a year, I still get 10%. I can't imagine many of us would ordinarily go for a loan on these terms. The only bonus is that if/when AC do actually raise equity, at a price as yet to be determined, I would be guaranteed to get some of it. This still seems a pretty bum deal. Am I missing something? No, it's not a loan reeknralf. You are buying equity, but it won't be valued, and your money actually turned into shares, until some point in the future. Until then it's like a loan, but with no interest. When that point arrives (most likely later this year, but any time up to 2 years) your shares will cost 10% less (rising to max 20% depending on how long it actually takes) than those that are purchased by others at that point. The problem for everybody considering the investment is that we don't know what the valuation will be - that is the unknown, and what we must each make a judgement on. Edit: because the shares are not quoted on a stock exchange, you have to keep them until such time as somebody offers to purchase them from you, via a future IPO or whatever the exit method is. If you find somebody to purchase them from you, you are able to sell them, but you have to agree the purchase price between you. This is the case for all unquoted shares. You buy them if you believe the company is going to do well enough that when you come to sell them they will be worth more than you invested. It's not for anybody needing an 'out' as others have said before. I wouldn't call my self an "Angel" just yet but I have invested in several early stage start ups as well as running my own company (which is of a similar stage and size to AC). The "in your face" nature of the bottom right hand corder advert for the fund raise combined with the lack of transparency of the deal is too much for me. AC are pretty good about setting out the T&Cs in a place you can find them - not so with Seedrs (I'm registered and still didn't find them). I trust your summary, if the maximum upside is 20% and poot liquidity, why should I move money out of AC where I have a decent return, reasonable LTV and very good liquidity. If wanted the chance of 20% in a year or two I'd still be in the FTSE, but the near guarantee of 10% a year with AC is too good to miss out on,, plus I understand AC now and Seedrs just haven't presented all the info I need in time.
|
|
ramblin rose
Member of DD Central
“Some people grumble that roses have thorns; I am grateful that thorns have roses.” — Alphonse Karr
Posts: 1,370
Likes: 857
|
Post by ramblin rose on Feb 17, 2015 19:58:53 GMT
No, it's not a loan reeknralf. You are buying equity, but it won't be valued, and your money actually turned into shares, until some point in the future. Until then it's like a loan, but with no interest. When that point arrives (most likely later this year, but any time up to 2 years) your shares will cost 10% less (rising to max 20% depending on how long it actually takes) than those that are purchased by others at that point. The problem for everybody considering the investment is that we don't know what the valuation will be - that is the unknown, and what we must each make a judgement on. Edit: because the shares are not quoted on a stock exchange, you have to keep them until such time as somebody offers to purchase them from you, via a future IPO or whatever the exit method is. If you find somebody to purchase them from you, you are able to sell them, but you have to agree the purchase price between you. This is the case for all unquoted shares. You buy them if you believe the company is going to do well enough that when you come to sell them they will be worth more than you invested. It's not for anybody needing an 'out' as others have said before. I wouldn't call my self an "Angel" just yet but I have invested in several early stage start ups as well as running my own company (which is of a similar stage and size to AC). The "in your face" nature of the bottom right hand corder advert for the fund raise combined with the lack of transparency of the deal is too much for me. AC are pretty good about setting out the T&Cs in a place you can find them - not so with Seedrs (I'm registered and still didn't find them). I trust your summary, if the maximum upside is 20% and poot liquidity, why should I move money out of AC where I have a decent return, reasonable LTV and very good liquidity. If wanted the chance of 20% in a year or two I'd still be in the FTSE, but the near guarantee of 10% a year with AC is too good to miss out on,, plus I understand AC now and Seedrs just haven't presented all the info I need in time. 20% isn't your maximum upside - there is in theory no maximum. 20% is the maximum discount you have on the price of shares when the convertible notes are turned into shares. As they intend to do that later this year, it is much more likely to be the stated 10% though. The upside, as you know from your other investments, mainly comes when your shares are sold several years down the line. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point?
|
|
|
|
Post by stuartassetzcapital on Feb 17, 2015 21:42:39 GMT
Yes I would normally but the link saves a lot of fees for AC and also for the investor !
|
|
|
|
Post by davee39 on Feb 17, 2015 21:44:27 GMT
One important rule applies, if you do not understand the investment it's probably best to pass. In this case it looks like Assetz enthusiasts should at least do some homework before piling in. That said I think it could be a fantastic investment for those who are not scared by the risks.
I have today completed the web site sign-up, after being non verified for several months. I have studied the forums in detail before finally getting to grips with how I think it works, so I rather hope the equity raise and the business continues to do well.
|
|
|
|
Post by pepperpot on Feb 17, 2015 21:46:44 GMT
Yes I would normally but the link saves a lot of fees for AC and also for the investor ! I must have either mis-read or picked up some bad info earlier in the thread, as I thought the link halved the AC fee to 3.75% but the investors 7.5% is unchanged.
|
|
wysiati
Member of DD Central
Posts: 397
Likes: 86
|
Post by wysiati on Feb 17, 2015 23:05:26 GMT
Yes I would normally but the link saves a lot of fees for AC and also for the investor ! I must have either mis-read or picked up some bad info earlier in the thread, as I thought the link halved the AC fee to 3.75% but the investors 7.5% is unchanged. Seedrs has stated categorically that use of the link/promo code has no impact on the 7.5% carry (investor fee). The only impact is to reduce the commission (company fee) paid on the amount raised. AIUI from Seedrs' perspective the only way for investors to avoid the carry (investor fee) is to be a direct investor with the consent of AC and therefore hold shares outside the Seedrs nominee structure (AC would also pay no commission (company fee) on such funds). This typically requires a gross investment of £25k as recommended by Seedrs although Seedrs has confirmed that the threshold is at the absolute discretion of AC. Earlier in this thread another forum member asked stuartassetzcapital whether AC would effectively waive the normal minimum and agree to allow investors to hold shares directly below the normal £25k threshold and giving £10k as a suggestion for a lower threshold but there does not appear to have been a public response from AC. A statement/clarification on this from AC would be helpful.
|
|
|
|
Post by elljay on Feb 18, 2015 7:32:36 GMT
Yes I would normally but the link saves a lot of fees for AC and also for the investor ! It would be helpful if Assetz discussed things like this first with the mod team. Have just PMed andrewholgate.
|
|
|
|
Post by stuartassetzcapital on Feb 18, 2015 7:42:03 GMT
I've been mulling this for 24 hours now and, on top of my own frustrations with the Seedrs site, I've been reading the confusion amongst these, normally sensible, writers. Since I make most of my money riding the ups and downs of UK and US shares I find the whole lack of transparency a bit worrying and I expect I will stay with the devil I know rather than the badly presented devil that Seedrs seems to be displaying. I'm not especially understanding of why a broker expects to receive 7.5% of any profits (for doing close to SF adams). Seedrs does seem to add a touch of the china seller and his barra' to what looks like a simple financial transaction. On the other hand it has been an eye opener to where the "red braces" have gone and I do appreciate having had the time to understand and read other's views on this new and exciting corner of the market Good luck to all those who go with this.  Removed pending improved version.
|
|
jonno
Member of DD Central
nil satis nisi optimum
Posts: 2,808
Likes: 3,242
|
Post by jonno on Feb 18, 2015 10:13:55 GMT
stuartassetzcapital: not sure I fully understand your post. I invested a couple of days ago without using "the code". Should I now e-mail you (who) to gain access to the lower charges? Sorry if I'm being a bit dim.
|
|
Neil
Posts: 40
Likes: 70
|
Post by Neil on Feb 18, 2015 10:48:19 GMT
Yes I would normally but the link saves a lot of fees for AC and also for the investor ! It would be helpful if Assetz discussed things like this first with the mod team. Have just PMed Apologies for this but I'm about to throw another spanner in the works. Probably more a question for the forum admin team than AC. If I open up either of the 2 Seedr links (with and without the promo code) on my mobile phone by clicking on them in this thread something strange happens. My clicks get redirected through Viglink - a provider of affiliate links for ProBoards. That doesn't appear to happen when I use the links on my desktop computer. I'd suggest anyone signing up doesn't use a mobile device at the moment (tablets might have the same issue?). It would appear Viglink might get the referral bonus for mobile sign-ups?
|
|
sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 1,212
|
Post by sqh on Feb 18, 2015 12:29:10 GMT
stuartassetzcapitalIf I register on seedrs with the promo code there is a discount of 3.75%. Do the lenders get that discount, or do Assetz keep it?
|
|
|
|
Post by thesnoop on Feb 18, 2015 13:59:13 GMT
Aaaaah, Did anyone read the latest Q&A feedback regarding payment deadlines ? Having scanned the terms and conditions, the only thing I could find was reference to a 2 week window, post signalling your intent to invest ( by clicking the invest button and assigning an mount), before loosing your investment if you had not deposited and payed up in full. I believe it said something like "payments can take 10 days to clear so be sure to deposit funds and 'pay' within 48Hrs of clicking invest to avoid loosing your investment" . So fearful of loosing out I coughed up the cash immediatey and now they say : "As soon as the campaign hits 100%, the due date for payment will be 7 days from that date".
Great... I could have been earning interest on that lump sum for a few weeks minimum  . That could have been made A LOT clearer on the Seedrs website. Or did I miss something obvious here ? |
|
|
|
Post by solicitorious on Feb 18, 2015 14:07:44 GMT
I checked with Thomas Davies of Seedrs, who has also posted the answer on the Seedrs AC page.
Hitting "Invest" is really no more than an expression of interest.
You can cancel.
You don't have to deposit funds yet.
You will be informed by email after the pitch is 100% funded.
You have 7 days thereafter to fund and pay for your bid.
if you don't, your bid just lapses.
|
|
.