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Post by bengilbert on Feb 8, 2015 19:20:06 GMT
It's not a secret that Assetz are looking to raise some equity funds and may raise some of it from their lenders. I suspect that they aren't able to market this to us as it would be a financial promotion, but I wonder what people's thoughts are.
I hope there will be a way of lenders getting involved in the equity raise alongside the institutions, so long as the terms look attractive enough. It's hard to know what sort of value would be fair but at least there's now the Lending Club price to give some sort of benchmark for comparison.
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Feb 8, 2015 23:49:39 GMT
Never say never, but I tend to the view that offers of this type are always overpriced. Also, I don't very much fancy it from a risk management point of view. I'd be more likely to invest if I was not a lender on the platform.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 9, 2015 4:48:45 GMT
About a year ago, The House Crowd did something similar. They were needing some money to expand. They apparently turned down an offer from a business 'angel' and sold shares to some of their investors instead. Whether it was a good investment for those people won't really be known until THC has its own IPO or gets bought out privately, but I must say they seem to have a much-increased deal flow this year, and they seem to be funding them very quickly.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Feb 9, 2015 10:20:51 GMT
About a year ago, The House Crowd did something similar. They were needing some money to expand. They apparently turned down an offer from a business 'angel' and sold shares to some of their investors instead. Whether it was a good investment for those people won't really be known until THC has its own IPO or gets bought out privately, but I must say they seem to have a much-increased deal flow this year, and they seem to be funding them very quickly. Indeed, does anyone have any insights as to what THC did which worked so well?
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Feb 9, 2015 12:17:51 GMT
Indeed, does anyone have any insights as to what THC did which worked so well? The offer they made to their customers was (they claim - I have no reason to doubt) the same as the business angel had offered. They preferred to use their own investors which makes sense. It wasn't a very large amount (from memory) and it filled quickly. I thought the valuation looked high, but then growth since then has been very strong.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Feb 9, 2015 14:52:54 GMT
Indeed, does anyone have any insights as to what THC did which worked so well? The offer they made to their customers was (they claim - I have no reason to doubt) the same as the business angel had offered. They preferred to use their own investors which makes sense. It wasn't a very large amount (from memory) and it filled quickly. I thought the valuation looked high, but then growth since then has been very strong. What I meant was that they have done something right because they are now filling up several loans a week, previously it was erm 10 days per loan. What they have done right is attracted many more investors. I know they've fiddled with the website (to no great effect imho) but what eles did they do to get so many new investors so quickly?
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jjc
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Post by jjc on Feb 9, 2015 15:51:48 GMT
I would (normally) share pikestaff's views on these equity raises. But being invested on a platform for a reasonable period of time (& hearing about their future plans etc on the forum) helps me feel I’m at least as (if not more) likely to have a chance at guessing their prospects compared to another equity investment where press & analyst commentary (for what it’s worth) is basically all I have to go on.. So I’m interested. Never had a problem with throwing good money after more good money
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jjc
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Post by jjc on Feb 9, 2015 16:55:15 GMT
stuartassetzcapital I’ve expressed an interest privately to you in the past on the equity raise. Thought I’d raise yr attention to this thread. Might be a good place to say what you can/like when the appropriate moment. For my part an idea of which Q/H of year you are targeting would be useful to know. bengilbert's comment about Lending Club is true but I hope we don’t get too carried away with things. AC are smaller, younger & have a far less dominant position in a much more fragmented market. Personally speaking I’d be happy with a moderate initial raise at a fair price with yes some institutional money but also something suitable set aside for AC’s faithful small investor lending base (AC could invite us to indicate our desired stakeholdings?), followed by a larger raise when serious institutional money can pile in. Maybe asking too much? For lenders who may not know I believe LC’s valuation has gone up by a factor of >100 since their first raise, so even a modest stake will have yielded quite nicely thanks very much oh you naughty capital markets you.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 10, 2015 1:54:06 GMT
It wasn't a very large amount (from memory) and it filled quickly. I thought the valuation looked high, but then growth since then has been very strong. They wanted to raise about £150k, and were willing to sell 5% of the company for that. They offered about 50 shares at £3k each. They had intended to keep the offer open until a certain date and then scale back applications if it was oversubscribed. There was so much enthusiasm that the scaling back was going to limit all applicants to just one share, so they decided to close the offer early as soon as they had received as many applications as they had shares to offer. Indeed, does anyone have any insights as to what THC did which worked so well? They're doing something that not many -- any? -- others are doing, so they have less competition and they provide a diversification opportunity. They're doing something that's reasonably easy to understand -- buying rundown properties very inexpensively, doing them up, and renting them out. Most of what they do is equity-based rather than lending, so there's capital gain potential. Unlike other crowdfunding equity platforms investing in start-ups where investments could either turn into big wins if the business is successful or big losses if it isn't, there's no gearing at THC so the likelihood of a total disaster should be quite small, and the rental income ought to be enough to support a dividend of around 6% p.a. during the holding period of 5+ years. Sometime in the past year THC reduced their share of any profits from 50% to 25% (affecting projects started after the change), so that probably made them more attractive than they had been. One thing they do that bothers me is the way they project possible profits. I don't have a problem with their assumption in most cases of a 5% p.a. increase in property prices, but IMHO they should be including more costs in their projections -- for maintenance expenses during the rental period and agents/conveyancing fees when they sell. They cover themselves by saying "Returns quoted exclude repairs, agents’ fees, maintenance, wear and tear, void periods and deductions for preparation/filing of annual company accounts and company return (c. £300), etc." but I'd much rather they included estimates for those costs and produced returns that might be achievable. They also refer to a gross return of, say, 85% over a 5-year project as being 17%/yr, which conveniently forgets about the power of compounding. (It would take only a 13.1% p.a. return compounded over five years to produce an 85% increase, though I don't think the annual rate difference would be as high as 4% in reality because of the dividends paid during the course of the project.) I haven't a clue what proportion of potential THC investors look at the projected returns, think that's what they're likely to achieve, and compare those to the rates quoted by AC and others. I certainly don't, but I suspect this might result in a goodly number of disappointed THC investors five years from now. On the other hand, I still think the projects are worth investing in, so their investors might be happy with the results at the end of the day.
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Post by bengilbert on Feb 10, 2015 6:16:37 GMT
I think emoneyunion also did an equity raise on a crowdfunding platform, which was I believe oversubscribed.
I see that Lending Club and Assetz are in very different positions. The Lending Club price does at least give something to make crude comparisons with - what should the ratio be between them? I was at one of the p2p lending conferences earlier in 2014 and someone spoke about looking forward to seeing Lending Club exposed to the rigour of the questioning of the market - so far it seems to be holding up quite well.
Obviously markets don't always question as much as they should, but I still tend to default to thinking their guess is better than mine. Except with some p2p loans, which look too attractive to me!
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 10, 2015 6:41:23 GMT
to all the prior OPs: any reason this thread couldn't be on the main board ?
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Feb 10, 2015 7:47:43 GMT
to all the prior OPs: any reason this thread couldn't be on the main board ? None that I can think of.
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shimself
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Post by shimself on Feb 10, 2015 9:02:02 GMT
There's another "report" bit.ly/1CWttPb about flotations of p2x companies. It's produced by one of the directors of Archover, who are of course, far from breaking the mould, being located in the Lloyds building and who take an insurance policy out on each of their borrowers (so let's run a poll on how likely they are to pay up if called upon). I think that makes it clear that Archover are very keen on flotation.
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jjc
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Post by jjc on Feb 10, 2015 10:45:53 GMT
Probably worth keeping an eye on LendInvest, who will most likely IPO in 2015. The best benchmark I can see for AC at the mo, am sure Stuart & his advisors will be watching their raise closely.
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Post by andrewholgate on Feb 12, 2015 10:51:00 GMT
As a very brief comment, we are in the midst of a Round A and crowdfunding is one option we are considering. I have always said that our lenders have been a key part of our growth and where I can I want to be able to share our success with them.
I'll keep you posted.
Andrew
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