Mike
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Post by Mike on Feb 11, 2015 1:37:20 GMT
All these [new] platforms... Does anyone else think it is a matter of time before someone creates a flash website, lists 'loans' for investment then walks off with the cash? Seems like this would be quite easy, and I have started to worry a little when I look at platforms I have not used before - what if? Who knew it was a big Ponzi scheme? Seems the ideal market to me.
I am not exactly clear on what the FCA do or don't require from registered platforms, but I doubt it would be very tricky to pull the wool over their eyes (and if it were, lying about FCA registration would probably suffice for many potential investors). A one-man operation could quite easily create loan listings that didn't exist, and update everything as required.
This is bound to happen sooner-or-later, and when it does I wonder what the fallout will be...
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Feb 11, 2015 2:01:07 GMT
This is a concern of mine as well. How do we know the borrowers/loans/security really exist? It does look rather easy to put together a fraudulent/scam offering. Hopefully it isn't as easy as it might appear.
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Post by westonkevRS on Feb 11, 2015 6:35:40 GMT
There are many fake insurance sites that offer unbelievably cheap rates (targetted to young people or non-UK nationals). The web pages look official and have regulatory stamps, but no real insurance is ever offered, just a phoney certificate that is worthless when a crash occurs. And of course that gives the fraudster time to continue until that first crash.
I'm unsure how in general these are policed, albeit P2P, insurance, investments, green-belt land or other "savings" offer.
Not ideal, but perhaps this forum helps. If it was flagged. Members are always discussing new sites. Would the moderators report to the authorities if any New P2P related sites were suspect?
Kevin.
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Post by westonkevRS on Feb 11, 2015 6:37:22 GMT
P.S. Our doors are always open. If you're ever near London Bridge, south of Tate Modern, pop in! I'll make you a cup of tea in a RateSetter mug.... Just to prove we are real!
Kevin.
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Post by wiseclerk on Feb 11, 2015 7:01:13 GMT
P.S. Our doors are always open. If you're ever near London Bridge, south of Tate Modern, pop in! I'll make you a cup of tea in a RateSetter mug.... Just to prove we are real! Kevin. lol
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Post by batchoy on Feb 11, 2015 9:53:52 GMT
All these [new] platforms... Does anyone else think it is a matter of time before someone creates a flash website, lists 'loans' for investment then walks off with the cash? Seems like this would be quite easy, and I have started to worry a little when I look at platforms I have not used before - what if? Who knew it was a big Ponzi scheme? Seems the ideal market to me. I am not exactly clear on what the FCA do or don't require from registered platforms, but I doubt it would be very tricky to pull the wool over their eyes (and if it were, lying about FCA registration would probably suffice for many potential investors). A one-man operation could quite easily create loan listings that didn't exist, and update everything as required. This is bound to happen sooner-or-later, and when it does I wonder what the fallout will be... Yes it will happen, as I have offered to prove to the Consumers Association/Which Magazine many many times when they espouse the use of https connections as a sign of security, it only takes a few hours to get webspace, a domain name, ssl certificates and even if you don't go as far as accepting money you can easily create a spoof website for harvesting credit/debit card details including CSV numbers and 3DS (verified by Visa) passwords and there is very little or nothing by way of security checks whilst you are doing it. I don't think you will ever combat an effective ponzi scheme unless the FCA when auditing P2P sites actually go as far as physically interviewing borrowers as it is all to easy to acquire sufficient personal information to falsify computer records.
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markr
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Post by markr on Feb 11, 2015 10:27:51 GMT
P.S. Our doors are always open. If you're ever near London Bridge, south of Tate Modern, pop in! I'll make you a cup of tea in a RateSetter mug.... Just to prove we are real! Does the provision fund cover RateSetter mugs, westonkevRS? The handle came off mine in what became known as the Purple Monday cupboard door crash. "Every lender, every mug", right?
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Investor
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Post by Investor on Feb 11, 2015 10:54:15 GMT
P.S. Our doors are always open. If you're ever near London Bridge, south of Tate Modern, pop in! I'll make you a cup of tea in a RateSetter mug.... Just to prove we are real! Kevin. westonkevRS, Am in a meeting until 11:30, will be there about 11:35 so please make sure the kettle is on. If ok I will take a photo of the ratesetter mug and post it here to quell the fears of the p2p conspiracy theorists on the site. Happy to take a black coffee no sugar in preference to tea. See you soon
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 11, 2015 11:07:03 GMT
All these [new] platforms... Does anyone else think it is a matter of time before someone creates a flash website, lists 'loans' for investment then walks off with the cash? Seems like this would be quite easy, and I have started to worry a little when I look at platforms I have not used before - what if? Who knew it was a big Ponzi scheme? Seems the ideal market to me. I am not exactly clear on what the FCA do or don't require from registered platforms, but I doubt it would be very tricky to pull the wool over their eyes (and if it were, lying about FCA registration would probably suffice for many potential investors). A one-man operation could quite easily create loan listings that didn't exist, and update everything as required. This is bound to happen sooner-or-later, and when it does I wonder what the fallout will be... <snip> I don't think you will ever combat an effective ponzi scheme unless the FCA when auditing P2P sites actually go as far as physically interviewing borrowers as it is all to easy to acquire sufficient personal information to falsify computer records. I don't believe the FCA are up to speed yet in auditing P2P in any shape or form. They tend to always be behind the curve and act after the event in my experience. There are a minority of P2P offerings floating around - good website, good rates, etc but when you carry out even basic checks on the individuals behind them you wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. In fact you wouldn't touch them with anything IMO.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 11, 2015 11:14:41 GMT
I can offer evidence that Ratesetter Mugs do exist. Here is a screenshot showing that eleven of them have £767 invested and are asking for 99%pa interest (or more). What worries me is that RS "transparency" does not extend to revealing exactly what interest those top six are expecting. Alternatively, RS doesn't actually exist, and those mugs are part of the great deception. Attachments:
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j
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Post by j on Feb 11, 2015 11:17:12 GMT
P.S. Our doors are always open. If you're ever near London Bridge, south of Tate Modern, pop in! I'll make you a cup of tea in a RateSetter mug.... Just to prove we are real! Kevin. westonkevRS, Am in a meeting until 11:30, will be there about 11:35 so please make sure the kettle is on. If ok I will take a photo of the ratesetter mug and post it here to quell the fears of the p2p conspiracy theorists on the site. Happy to take a black coffee no sugar in preference to tea. See you soon No biscuits? Mine is choc digestive plz
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Investor
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Post by Investor on Feb 11, 2015 11:57:40 GMT
westonkevRS, Am in a meeting until 11:30, will be there about 11:35 so please make sure the kettle is on. If ok I will take a photo of the ratesetter mug and post it here to quell the fears of the p2p conspiracy theorists on the site. Happy to take a black coffee no sugar in preference to tea. See you soon No biscuits? Mine is choc digestive plz The plot thickens. I arrive, on time, for our scheduled 11:35 meeting to the offices of Ratesetter which is an workspace office address with an unmanned reception. Access control is covered by an intercom system with instructions on how to dial the business required. I performed the 4 stage task exactly as described by the documentation on the door however each of the 3 times I tried I received a 'no answer' response from the system. I have attached a redacted photo so you will be able to share my trip. Whilst the evidence from this visit has left me unable to confirm or deny whether Ratesetter actually exists, I can definitely confirm that there were no mugs, no tea, no coffee and definitely no chocolate digestives available. I anticipate a response from westonkevRS explaining they were all far too busy processing the mountain of lenders cash, and as such no-one was available to answer the door, however as the grace, charm, and witty repartee I had expected on my visit were sadly lacking I can only realistically see myself giving then a 1/10 and would suggest none of them ever enter a 'dinner dates' type TV show. I have visited with several other p2p organisations in the past and currently RS unfortunately sit firmly at the bottom of my p2p hosts.
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Post by davee39 on Feb 11, 2015 12:08:21 GMT
If you HAVE to try out every new platform try sending them £20. Invest £10 & withdraw £10 . Wait 6 months. You can then make your mind up.
Barriers to entry in P2P are low. Barriers to success are high.
The market does need competition, and there is still room for growth. What it does not need is a load of shady moneylenders piling in looking at savers cash at 8% and at risk from default, while loans are going out at 50%+.
Zopa has seriously lost its way, unfortunately, doggedly sticking to a business model of loan matching which may have worked 10 years ago, but does not work now. The proposed entry into P2P by an FTSE100 company is therefore welcome, and there is room for more players of the same caliber. Meanwhile Ratesetter appears to be largely unchallenged in the mug department.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Feb 11, 2015 13:43:20 GMT
I doubt I'll be sending any money to a startup unless they offer something genuinely innovative. Wellesley did that with their offering (which I have mixed views on but that is another issue) and it has done well. Their are plenty of 'established' offerings without needing to bother with another me too.
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Investor
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Post by Investor on Feb 12, 2015 15:35:03 GMT
Still no response or meeting invite from westonkevRS on this thread. Wonder if things are a little busy over at RS HQ at the moment . If it really is that busy let me know and I'll happily make the teas and coffees for you all to give you a break. Certainly his post from yesterday 'Our doors are always open' seems to be looking indefensible.
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