coop
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Post by coop on Mar 13, 2015 13:13:13 GMT
Just over £150k on one property loan at 7% buyer rate in £960 bids - I think he's having to change strategy and park a chunk of his money somewhere for a while.
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 13, 2015 13:35:54 GMT
I think I would have waited a few days for something better to come along. 7% loans will be hard to shift. The 8% one is currently at a 0.9% discount, 8.5% buyer rate.
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coop
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Post by coop on Mar 13, 2015 14:10:25 GMT
Unless I desperately need to release funds I'll just list at par and take my ticket for the autobid buying lottery. Odds aren't always brilliant though! Case in point recent Chesire loan with CB; I have 6 £20 parts for sale at par; there are currently 919 £20 loan parts listed at par.
If it were totally random that would give me a 0.65% chance at a sale everytime a part sells.
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coop
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Post by coop on Mar 13, 2015 14:15:10 GMT
The tall one attempted to put over £300k into 11549 (29k loan) from what I can see.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 13, 2015 15:19:02 GMT
So is it a brain-dead autobot, or a really dumb (but well heeled) manual bidder? FC's servers are sometimes a bit slow to notice an auction is filled (or that 15% rate is no longer actually bidable) .. if money is pouring in you need to do a bottoms-up total to decide where the margin really is.
The evidence is gone now - baz**** having put in over 500 bids at £20.
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sl125
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Post by sl125 on Mar 13, 2015 18:15:01 GMT
It's the complete lack of any common sense in some of the botty bidders that amazes me.
JCB.... and a few new entrants in the botting craze have dumped zillions of bids at 15% on A+, and chasing down in 0.1% increments. What's the point in that? No A+ goes for anywhere near those levels (max in 100 loans is 10.1%).
It'll be interesting to see if the arbitrage opportunities of flipping with bid-bots is finally over. There is now such a huge wall of cash, and so many bid-bots chasing from 15% down, that the market is simply reverting to mean. Eventually, the gains to be made by flipping (which have, admittedly, served me well) will increasingly become marginal, and will eventually be the same as the equilibrium net rate that the primary market achieves.
Interesting times....
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is
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Post by is on Mar 13, 2015 19:30:50 GMT
It's the complete lack of any common sense in some of the botty bidders that amazes me. JCB.... and a few new entrants in the botting craze have dumped zillions of bids at 15% on A+, and chasing down in 0.1% increments. What's the point in that? No A+ goes for anywhere near those levels (max in 100 loans is 10.1%). It'll be interesting to see if the arbitrage opportunities of flipping with bid-bots is finally over. There is now such a huge wall of cash, and so many bid-bots chasing from 15% down, that the market is simply reverting to mean. Eventually, the gains to be made by flipping (which have, admittedly, served me well) will increasingly become marginal, and will eventually be the same as the equilibrium net rate that the primary market achieves. Interesting times.... I had some 15% A+ parts but long sold them. The highest rated A+ in my loan book is currently 9533 at 13.9%, just two months old. So you certainly can get high rate early closes in any risk rating.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 13, 2015 22:01:51 GMT
Well you certainly =could= back in 4q 2014, but I've not seen anything that good recently... in fact early closers of all types are somewhat absent of late - I wonder if FC are actively discouraging it? (oh, except for a 'few minutes early', which flumoxes the last minute snipers. 11392 closed a little early today, iirc).
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Post by ratrace on Mar 13, 2015 23:04:48 GMT
Rates maybe falling at FC at the moment, but that's certainly not the case over at RS. With rates at 6.8% at the moment in the 5 year income and only 178k in that market.
Its now looking like the time to buy.
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 13, 2015 23:14:01 GMT
Looks like FC have found themselves an underwriter for property loans then, as long as they keep paying the 2% cashback... Yes, rate stability on the business loans is something that FC will be wishing to achieve, avoiding volatility which scares the borrowers and the venture capitalists. If long-term holders can fill those loans (or those not with the institutional lenders) then the role of flippers, to chase down the rates of the big loans to the flipper limit and move to the next, must be helpful. And if they can be enticed to place the surplus cash into the fag end tranches of targeted property loans which the Autobidders cannot fill - well that is even better. Just throw in a few early closers to keep them keen. I reckon that once rates on the unsecured business loans have been stabilised, FC will be keen to lock them by fixing a rate, or a narrow range, for the band - and using cashback selectively for large loans when difficult to fill. Goodbye reverse auction, goodbye Q&A.
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is
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Post by is on Mar 14, 2015 7:01:28 GMT
Looks like FC have found themselves an underwriter for property loans then, as long as they keep paying the 2% cashback... Yes, rate stability on the business loans is something that FC will be wishing to achieve, avoiding volatility which scares the borrowers and the venture capitalists. If long-term holders can fill those loans (or those not with the institutional lenders) then the role of flippers, to chase down the rates of the big loans to the flipper limit and move to the next, must be helpful. And if they can be enticed to place the surplus cash into the fag end tranches of targeted property loans which the Autobidders cannot fill - well that is even better. Just throw in a few early closers to keep them keen. I reckon that once rates on the unsecured business loans have been stabilised, FC will be keen to lock them by fixing a rate, or a narrow range, for the band - and using cashback selectively for large loans when difficult to fill. Goodbye reverse auction, goodbye Q&A. Indeed, they basically said almost as much to me by referring to the developments on US platforms moving towards the fixed rate model. We will see if they can ever fully achieve it.
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Post by bonfemme on Mar 14, 2015 7:03:48 GMT
It may be the link to my rural location which makes me slow. Nice tail, Bonfemme. Thanks .... trying to grow it like yours
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Post by davee39 on Mar 14, 2015 10:01:16 GMT
The Q & A allow some lenders to feel important, but can be intrusive, insulting and time consuming for a borrower, furthermore it cannot help marketing of loans when the borrower rate is so variable. In addition to fixed rate listings I can imagine the packaging of smaller loans into risk banded 'instruments' being a possible way forward. There is huge scope to increase the number of business loans but not using the existing system.
I like the AC green fund which pays 7% with a provision fund and is pretty much instant access due to the effective secondary market. A blended loan package at FC would be ideal as an ISA investment attracting more funds from lenders happy at ratesetter but worried about losses.
Meanwhile the big bots seem to have huge sums chasing down loan rates and earning a zero return.
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blender
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Post by blender on Mar 14, 2015 12:06:06 GMT
It would be a shame to lose the Q&A with the end Borrower; it is the only element which demonstrates that this is true peer to peer lending. Sometimes it can be very useful in highlighting issues - even without answers, and I always read it.
However, at times it is cringe-making and embarrassing and you feel for the poor working-borrower who just wants to borrow some money and get on with the business and is subjected to interrogation on accountancy practice which may well be out of his/her personal knowledge, and often outside of the questioner's. "I'm not an expert on ***** but ... ?" And then they get beaten up an threatened with high rates for not answering.
It is easy to understand why FC might like to manage the Borrower communications completely, after all, FC's assessment is sufficient for the vast majority of lenders and probably all of the borrowers. When flippers join in, things are going wrong - with flipping.
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am
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Post by am on Mar 14, 2015 12:38:52 GMT
It would be a shame to lose the Q&A with the end Borrower; it is the only element which demonstrates that this is true peer to peer lending. Sometimes it can be very useful in highlighting issues - even without answers, and I always read it. However, at times it is cringe-making and embarrassing and you feel for the poor working-borrower who just wants to borrow some money and get on with the business and is subjected to interrogation on accountancy practice which may well be out of his/her personal knowledge, and often outside of the questioner's. "I'm not an expert on ***** but ... ?" And then they get beaten up an threatened with high rates for not answering. It is easy to understand why FC might like to manage the Borrower communications completely, after all, FC's assessment is sufficient for the vast majority of lenders and probably all of the borrowers. When flippers join in, things are going wrong - with flipping. Part of the solution is more transparency on loans up front. Unfortunately FC are going the other way. That's one of the reasons I've stopped adding new money to FC, and am considering pulling out. Another part of the solution is FC being more proactive about explaining to borrowers about how the auctions work. (Including things like the advantage of not closing early so you get the drop in overall interest rate from the last minute rush.)
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