mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Jan 15, 2014 14:38:33 GMT
not heard of fs before today, was alluding to more established players with my comment Funding Secure are an online pawnbroker for a variety of classes of assets. They have been active since last summer, and seem to have more people wanting to lend than wanting to borrow at the moment. For more info, take a look at their website and the FS section of the P2PIF.
|
|
|
|
Post by batchoy on Jan 15, 2014 14:49:15 GMT
Allied to the poor credit report is the poor valuation report, not only is the copy we are presented with unsigned and missing the appendices but it appears to be largely based on what EDITED: the borrower has told the valuer, particularly with regards to which land legally forms part of the property and the access rights.
BB: Mod: removed the name of the borrower.
|
|
|
|
Post by andrewholgate on Jan 15, 2014 15:20:46 GMT
I would imagine the auction has been postponed because, frankly, it is a complete dog's breakfast. I have never seen such an incompetent proposal. If I were boss there, the <snip_redactedByModerator> responsible for the credit report would at minimum be given a final warning, and <snip_redactedByModerator>. Non-sequitors, inconsistencies in the data, a confused jumble of information about various properties, even a spelling mistake, and it is called a credit report! They either did not read what they had written, or if they did, they did so with their minds engaged elsewhere. Schoolboy standard.
As a result of this report I may be doing the <snip_redactedByModerator> an injustice but they seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. I spent 9 months working on a farm and learned a lot about milking cows but it hardly qualified me to run the farm. What is this experience of Mr <snip_redactedByModerator> - fishing out and feeding? Those ponds have to be renovated and then restocked, and managed, and then the public has to be persuaded to come and fish there. Given the current state, there won't be much income generated there for a year to two. Also, it seems it was a fish farm - not a leisure fishery - the two are completely different, and the ponds for one are unlikely to be suitable for the other.
And it does not say much for the energy of Mr <snip_redactedByModerator> if he was content to live for 4 years off the proceeds of some previous investment. And is that a working tax credit he gets every month? Say no more.
I know the loan does not depend upon a profitable business as the loan is apparently more than covered by the property valuation (another thing I did not understand as the LTV is 64 per cent but the charges on property value are 60k plus 114k from a Wirral house (174k) and the loan is about 47k) but I do foresee long delays in extracting the money as property is sold and a tortuous legal process undergone, so that my money will be tied up without earning interest for a long time.
Definitely not for me.
Not sure UK employment laws allow me to do that. I'm also not keen on personally criticising people by name in an open public forum and I would respectfully request you refrain from doing so, given that there are potentially libelous nature to the comments. I take this very seriously. If there is an issue with their overall work, which I don't believe there is, I will deal with it within Assetz Capital. While the crowd have the right to do due diligence, I do not believe it gives the right to persecute. If you have a problem with Assetz Capital, direct your ire at me. I've noted your comments regarding the report and the deal. I will look into this one.
|
|
|
|
Post by batchoy on Jan 15, 2014 16:30:20 GMT
For all the borrower's supposed experience and knowledge, there appears to have been little research done: The uniqueness of the business is somewhat questionable, just 4 miles down the road and much closer to an A road and thus with easier access you have the Teifi Valley Railway which appears to already offer many of attractions the borrower is planning to implement. Similarly 2 miles upstream on the Afon Ceri you have the Rhydlewis Trout Farm & Smokery these are established businesses and one wonders whether the area can support another railyway and fishery.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Jan 15, 2014 20:07:25 GMT
[mod hat on] After extensive moderation of this post and it's re-quotes to remove the identification of both the borrowers and the authors of the credit report, the thread is now open for further comment. Perhaps we can all remember that people (including borrowers and AC staff) have feelings, and excessively agressive criticism of individuals is generally counter productive.
|
|
bugs4me
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,845
Likes: 1,478
|
Post by bugs4me on Jan 15, 2014 22:28:50 GMT
[mod hat on] After extensive moderation of this post and it's re-quotes to remove the identification of both the borrowers and the authors of the credit report, the thread is now open for further comment. Perhaps we can all remember that people (including borrowers and AC staff) have feelings, and excessively agressive criticism of individuals is generally counter productive. Personally I can't see the point of criticism over this proposal. If you're not comfortable with it then simply do not participate and walk away. Ask questions in the relevant section and just maybe they will be answered to the posters satisfaction, but if not then leave alone. There's another P2P company on these forums that have taken a fair amount of flak. Maybe it was justified as their attitude towards potential lenders/investors was at times IMO evasive and sometimes patronising. To others they would have viewed their responses differently. I will not be investing in this other P2P until or unless they have a firm track record but I'm sure others feel differently. Have to agree with Andrew over this. If there are criticisms of AC staff then they should be directed to him via pm. It's not as if AC are not active around these parts unlike some other P2P/P2B's. Just my tuppence worth.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Jan 15, 2014 23:16:26 GMT
This proposition raises an ethical question for us as lenders. Reading the comments on this thread, and the (unprecedented number of ?) questions on the loan listing its hard not to conclude the business plan (in so far as we know it) for this fishery / tourist attraction is going to be very difficult to pull off successfully. Its unlikely any bank would give serious consideration to this.
So is it ethical for us to provide a loan to this couple to facilitate the purchase of the land when there is a significant chance they will end up worse off financially in the long term than the "do nothing" option ?
Assuming the security hiccup can be resolved, from our perspective the loan is really an equity release from the Wirral property, but with additional security via the Pembrokeshire land. I'm not convinced our perception of the un-viability of the fishery business plan should detract from the assessment of the security for this loan, but I've struggled with this point on other loans.
I think I'm in on this one ... but the borrowers probably should be being advised to walk away.
|
|
mikes1531
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,453
Likes: 2,320
|
Post by mikes1531 on Jan 15, 2014 23:16:41 GMT
Personally I can't see the point of criticism over this proposal. I agree, with respect to any criticism of the borrower's business plan, because whether the business succeeds or fails shouldn't have any bearing on the success of the AC loan. Questions that are related to the repayment of the loan -- such as whether the woman has gone back to work or not -- are more relevant, but probably still would be addressed better if asked on the loan's page of the AC website. What I see here appears to be a good level of security, and borrowers who will be putting a lot of their own assets into this project. If the business fails, they will have lost an awful lot of money, so they have a huge incentive to do whatever they can to ensure it succeeds.
|
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jan 16, 2014 0:01:47 GMT
I would imagine the auction has been postponed because, frankly, it is a complete dog's breakfast. I have never seen such an incompetent proposal. If I were boss there, the <snip_redactedByModerator> responsible for the credit report would at minimum be given a final warning, and <snip_redactedByModerator>. Non-sequitors, inconsistencies in the data, a confused jumble of information about various properties, even a spelling mistake, and it is called a credit report! They either did not read what they had written, or if they did, they did so with their minds engaged elsewhere. Schoolboy standard.
As a result of this report I may be doing the <snip_redactedByModerator> an injustice but they seem to be living in cloud cuckoo land. I spent 9 months working on a farm and learned a lot about milking cows but it hardly qualified me to run the farm. What is this experience of Mr <snip_redactedByModerator> - fishing out and feeding? Those ponds have to be renovated and then restocked, and managed, and then the public has to be persuaded to come and fish there. Given the current state, there won't be much income generated there for a year to two. Also, it seems it was a fish farm - not a leisure fishery - the two are completely different, and the ponds for one are unlikely to be suitable for the other.
And it does not say much for the energy of Mr <snip_redactedByModerator> if he was content to live for 4 years off the proceeds of some previous investment. And is that a working tax credit he gets every month? Say no more.
I know the loan does not depend upon a profitable business as the loan is apparently more than covered by the property valuation (another thing I did not understand as the LTV is 64 per cent but the charges on property value are 60k plus 114k from a Wirral house (174k) and the loan is about 47k) but I do foresee long delays in extracting the money as property is sold and a tortuous legal process undergone, so that my money will be tied up without earning interest for a long time.
Definitely not for me.
Not sure UK employment laws allow me to do that. I'm also not keen on personally criticising people by name in an open public forum and I would respectfully request you refrain from doing so, given that there are potentially libelous nature to the comments. I take this very seriously. If there is an issue with their overall work, which I don't believe there is, I will deal with it within Assetz Capital. While the crowd have the right to do due diligence, I do not believe it gives the right to persecute. If you have a problem with Assetz Capital, direct your ire at me. I've noted your comments regarding the report and the deal. I will look into this one. Direct question to you Mr Holgate, quoting your documentation therefore no potentially libellous comments:
From the credit report:
“The query over sole ownership of the property by <snip_redactedByModerator> must be resolved to our satisfaction prior to drawdown.”
Question:
Does that mean that lenders place bids before the question of sole ownership is determined?
If so, someone is taking the p*ss.
From the credit report:
Serviceability
<snip_redactedByModerator> net salary 1245
<snip_redactedByModerator> ESA 606
(ESA is a company insurance benefit which covers illness etc. <snip_redactedByModerator> had whiplash on her neck while in work when she was driving. She will return to work after Christmas)
NB. Salary for <snip_redactedByModerator> is 36k per annum plus bonuses, not known about changes until she returns to work in January 2014.
Question:
How does £36k per annum equate to “<snip_redactedByModerator> net salary 1245”?
Again, is someone extracting the urine?
|
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jan 16, 2014 0:17:29 GMT
Why was my post moderated when I merely quoted Assetz Capital’s own documentation?
Strikes me that the moderators are in cahoots with Assetz, power mad or both.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Jan 16, 2014 0:19:42 GMT
From the credit report: “The query over sole ownership of the property by <snip_redactedByModerator> must be resolved to our satisfaction prior to drawdown.” Question: Does that mean that lenders place bids before the question of sole ownership is determined? I took the comment on the loan listing explaining the delayed start "TO ALLOW CLARIFICATION ON A SECURITY POINT" was specifically aimed at ensuring clarification of the ownership of the property before the commencement of the auction. [Mod hat on] Why was my post moderated when I merely quoted Assetz Capital’s own documentation?Strikes me that the moderators are in cahoots with Assetz, power mad or both. The borrowers name can only be seen once logged onto the AC website and is not visible to the general public. It is important to protect the privacy of all individuals named in privledged documents given this is a publicly visible forum, and the individuals will not themselves have the ability to respond. The last 24 hours has seen quite a few posts that have needed moderation (on both AC and FC boards). It actually takes less time to type Mr X or Mrs Y than the full name, and reduces the workload of the moderation team in retrospectively applying the forum rule "Please obscure the identity of borrowers". Thanks, MRC.
|
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jan 16, 2014 0:38:43 GMT
I took the comment on the loan listing explaining the delayed start "TO ALLOW CLARIFICATION ON A SECURITY POINT" was specifically aimed at ensuring clarification of the ownership of the property before the commencement of the auction. [Mod hat on] The borrowers name can only be seen once logged onto the AC website and is not visible to the general public. It is important to protect the privacy of all individuals named in privledged documents given this is a publicly visible forum, and the individuals will not themselves have the ability to respond. The last 24 hours has seen quite a few posts that have needed moderation (on both AC and FC boards). It actually takes less time to type Mr X or Mrs Y than the full name, and reduces the workload of the moderation team in retrospectively applying the forum rule "Please obscure the identity of borrowers". Thanks, MRC. OK, rules are rules so I’ll ask the same question in politically correct language. Direct question to you Mr Holgate, quoting your documentation therefore no potentially libellous comments: From the credit report: “The query over sole ownership of the property by the borrower must be resolved to our satisfaction prior to drawdown.” Question: Does that mean that lenders place bids before the question of sole ownership is determined? If so, someone is taking the p*ss. From the credit report: Serviceability One borrower’s net salary is 1245 One borrower’s ESA 606 (ESA is a company insurance benefit which covers illness etc. one borrower had whiplash on her neck while in work when she was driving. She will return to work after Christmas) NB. Salary for one borrower is 36k per annum plus bonuses, not known about changes until she returns to work in January 2014. Question: How does £36k per annum equate to said borrower’s net salary 1245”? Again, is someone extracting the urine? Hope this meets the mods approval.
|
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Jan 16, 2014 0:48:13 GMT
Why was my post moderated when I merely quoted Assetz Capital’s own documentation?
Strikes me that the moderators are in cahoots with Assetz, power mad or both.
Hi Yorkshireman, Regardless of the niceties and common sense regarding republishing of privileged information into a public forum, please note the forum rules in regard to ensuring that posts do not allow identification of borrowers. Using their actual names is a fairly obvious way of identifying them. The forum rules are available on both the main board and pinned to every board. They apply regardless of the p2p platform in question. Also, while that element has not been moderated/altered, I'd personally ask that you consider whether some of the language is compatible with the rule "Please be polite and constructive." With regard to your final point in the above quote, my personally view is that this forum is lightly moderated, and such moderation is done in moderation, so to speak, and after a sensible level of consideration.
|
|
|
|
Post by bracknellboy on Jan 16, 2014 0:51:07 GMT
yorkshireman: I had not spotted the repost of the post following the mod. So to speak. So my response was against the response to the mod. Me thinks it may be time for the apple and stairs.
|
|
|
|
Post by yorkshireman on Jan 16, 2014 0:57:37 GMT
yorkshireman: I had not spotted the repost of the post following the mod. So to speak. So my response was against the response to the mod. Me thinks it may be time for the apple and stairs. Good idea!
|
|
