merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Feb 24, 2014 18:28:49 GMT
Does he not have a suspended sentence hanging over him? Did he declare the conviction when applying for the loan? If he did declare it then FC should be liable for any loss. If he did not then it is time for FC to start using the F word and to make some serious threats. Someone who holds this loan should ask FC simply and formally whether they knew of the borrower's criminal conviction for handling stolen property though his scrap business on the day that the loan was drawn down. Yes he does have a suspended sentence hanging over him for receiving stolen goods. This was most certainly in place at the time that he got the dosh and IMO probably even before he applied for the loan. I am advised that there could be many legal approaches to this case ranging from civil to criminal. My daughter who is a barrister suggested that if 20 or so of us were to put a claim in to our local Small Claims Court, FC would go nuts paying lawyers to defend each case. Only cost £17 to put a small claim in and the damage it would do FC could be substantial. Just a thought!
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mikeb
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Post by mikeb on Feb 24, 2014 19:00:30 GMT
My daughter who is a barrister suggested that if 20 or so of us were to put a claim in to our local Small Claims Court, FC would go nuts paying lawyers to defend each case. Only cost £17 to put a small claim in and the damage it would do FC could be substantial. Just a thought! It also occurred to me, regarding the ability to opt-out of the FC recovery process ... not for this loan specifically, but in general. What happens if each person that opts out, and gets the debtor's full details, decides to send a Letter Before Action, for their £20 (or more) + costs? Followed by a small claim action ... Wouldn't that bury them in so much paperwork that they wouldn't have a chance of dealing with it? They wouldn't know if they were coming or going ...
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
Posts: 902
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Post by merlin on Feb 24, 2014 20:58:28 GMT
My daughter who is a barrister suggested that if 20 or so of us were to put a claim in to our local Small Claims Court, FC would go nuts paying lawyers to defend each case. Only cost £17 to put a small claim in and the damage it would do FC could be substantial. Just a thought! It also occurred to me, regarding the ability to opt-out of the FC recovery process ... not for this loan specifically, but in general. What happens if each person that opts out, and gets the debtor's full details, decides to send a Letter Before Action, for their £20 (or more) + costs? Followed by a small claim action ... Wouldn't that bury them in so much paperwork that they wouldn't have a chance of dealing with it? They wouldn't know if they were coming or going ... You have got it bang on the nose. It would not take the press long to realise there was a problem worth investigating and could create adverse publicity for FC which I am sure they would not welcome.
Beyond all this there is of course a recourse to lodge a formal complaint against FC with the FCA. This would likely be welcomed by FC like a hole in the head as they are already in the middle of reorganising (See last months FC Newsletter) in order to come into line with the new FCA rules for P2P lending. As it is said, there are many ways to skin a cat. So take your pick.
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 24, 2014 22:01:55 GMT
It is clear that this borrower company should not have received a loan, and presumably the director is guarantor - wow! One possibility is that information was not divulged by the borrower, the other is that FC did not act on the information. In either of those cases I believe FC will do the decent thing and accept liability for any losses. So you can see why they are keen to do all they can to get some cash back before they default it and have to come clean on the detail - they cannot ask for novation without giving the material facts. The trouble is that this sort of situation requires regular site visits by very large and visible (but polite) men with very short hair - not an occasional routine telephone call from a London office. The structural problem with P2P and FC is that FC's revenue and growth (and shareholder value) comes from sales while the lenders' returns come from collections. FC is sales led while its lenders interest requires it to be collections led. Money spent on the collections/insolvency team is just an overhead.
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Post by gingergent on Feb 25, 2014 8:14:29 GMT
The structural problem with P2P and FC is that FC's revenue and growth (and shareholder value) comes from sales while the lenders' returns come from collections. FC is sales led while its lenders interest requires it to be collections led. Money spent on the collections/insolvency team is just an overhead. I had an interesting thought experiment a couple of weeks ago comparing P2P with mortgage securitisation. Loan originator has limited skin in the game (retained portions + reputation vs servicing fee + reputation). Ultimate lenders have restricted visibility of borrower fundamentals (aggregated loans + model assumptions vs borrower confidentiality). Limited lender sophistication (innovative product vs personal investors). I'm sure there are other aspects you could draw out, just as there are also material differences. I have no doubt that a lot of people will do well out of P2P (borrowers, lenders and intermediaries), and I continue to invest, but caveat emptor applies and all 3 parties have distinct incentives.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 26, 2014 17:19:16 GMT
Quite right, Grumps.... (oh! that's me! Hi!) Still looking at Top Tier Law so called A risk (4325) , first payment 33 days late, second payment now three days late - FC said on 13 Feb the recoveries process would be escalated on Monday 17 Feb - since then... nothing! Solicitors! Since late last year FC's loan listings very suddenly increased from 20-40 at a time to 80-100 at a time. Does such an abrupt change mean loans refused by another entity are being passed on to FC? Mmmm! edit:The borrower assures us he will pay by next Tuesday......oh, well that's all right then...Crappy Scrappy says he'll pay next week ... thrills all round Extra tea!!! Top Tier Law Waller has payed up. Shall dump them for gross inefficiency tomorrow. Presumably Crappy Scrappy has oodles of metal in his yard. FC should just throw the book at him now, close him down, and have the metal sold on, the proceeds used to repay creditors. No point in waiting for him to pay. Presumably he is still trading, and is just refusing to repay FC until that happens.
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markr
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Post by markr on Feb 26, 2014 21:14:04 GMT
Shall dump them for gross inefficiency tomorrow. Woah, not so fast, sonny Jim, it seems they aren't going to let us dump them unless the nice law man pays up in March as well.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 27, 2014 10:11:51 GMT
Ah! It has maintained its risk band so I didn't realise it was still locked, despite FC saying they would "upgrade" after an on-time March payment. Never mind. Plenty of other low-rate stuff from early last year to flog off.
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Feb 27, 2014 10:31:38 GMT
Good luck with flogging them off if they're significantly below MBR. I've had a small sub 9.5% Band C loan part for sale at 0% markup for almost two weeks now, with no autobid bite. I think there's a strong possibility that FC have made some autobid configuration changes to stop it picking up "at par" secondary market loan parts at significantly below MBR due to the dumping/swapping into higher rate loans by longer term platform users that began to take place in late January.
I have no proof of this; it is conjecture on my part. However, if I'm right and you hold loan parts at sub-MBR, you're not going to be able to readily offload them onto autobidders anymore...
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 27, 2014 11:58:49 GMT
They're going quite slowly but my offloads of A at 7.3%, B at 8.3%*, C at 9.0% are being bought within a few days. Can't think why! Auto-twits, so probably not FC tampering. * two more this morning.
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Feb 27, 2014 12:00:53 GMT
Hmmmm, strange. Wonder why mine is not shifting. Will try relisting it...
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markr
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Post by markr on Feb 27, 2014 13:49:08 GMT
My experience is some will go, some won't. I'm guessing that if all the autobidders with sub-MBR rates already have parts then that one won't sell.
I did sell a 9.5% C loan part at at par, then buy a part in the same loan at 9.7% actual, discounted to 9.9% buyer rate. Pity it was only a £20 part.
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 27, 2014 15:06:15 GMT
Agreed Markr that some will go and some will not. FC may have the ability to limit the attention that Autobid pays to the secondary market, but not to interfere with the interest rate settings made by Autobidders as Jimbo seems to imply. I sell my C- before the fourth repayment, just to avoid defaults, and so yesterday evening I put a few hundred pounds of loan parts in each of four C- loans up for sale, in parts of ex £40 or £60. These were all at par at 11.5%, while MBR is now 11.6%. These used to go at a premium but no longer. On logging on this morning three autobidders (presumably) had each taken one part of each, in three groups of four parts. Two of these autobidders were dated yesterday, late at night, and one today was early this morning, though we have no time stamp. But nothing since. I think this shows that Autobid does run on the secondary market occasionally, but I do suspect that the repayments to autobidders are aimed at the new loans mostly. That large A loan closing in 8 days time has now collected £94K at 7.9%, while smaller A loans closing today are at marginal rates of over 12%, so all that autobidder ballast cash is really needed to produce anything like an acceptable average rate on loans of 100k up. Meanwhile I am trying to monitor the number of unsold loan parts at par or a discount around noon on a daily basis and this number has crept up from around 5000 at the start of last week to 7000 at the end of this. So cash is still very short for new loans and marginal rates even higher, which of course encourages us to churn our holdings, which in turn encourages FC to avoid the secondary market for Autobid, if they can.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 27, 2014 15:29:27 GMT
I've been selling my early C- up to about six months old, many at 11.5%. I've only had one crappy C- so far (which I failed to scrap; only made one payment - then he Welshed on the deal), so these C- loans have been no worse than the rest of my fortpolio.
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Post by bracknellboy on Feb 27, 2014 15:43:59 GMT
OG, are blowing your own trumpet ref. the quality of your C- holdings ?
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