merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Feb 10, 2014 15:24:13 GMT
I have been watching this thread with some interest recently as I have disposed of around 200 businesses with multiple loan parts over the last month and do not seem to have had too much trouble. Most of my stuff was at MBR or better and most sold with a slight premium. As I had expected anything with a rate well over MBR sold PDQ but certainly some of the lesser value ones at nil premium took 3 or 4 days to shift. No surprises for me then, but could it just be the old saw "quality always sells" coming true yet again?
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 10, 2014 15:27:14 GMT
I have now tested Autobid on the secondary market and have to report it is working. Like oldgrumpy I am selling my older lower-interest loans part and buying new while the rates are good. At about 2pm I placed about £1600 worth of A @ 8.6% and B @ 9.1% & 9.2% at par and with sizes up to £91. They were above MBR and good fodder for Autobid, when you see all the money on auctions at MBR. (Yes I can be criticised for not selling at premium to recoup the fees.)
Within an hour just over £1000 were gone, and examination shows that these could all be Autobidders - never more than one part of each loan, groups of up to three loan parts from different loans sold at the same time to the same buyer.
What is of interest is that those which remain have sizes in the range £80 to £91, though some of that size were sold. I still have the loan which I was complaining would not go at par, a B of 9.3%, and that has parts of £93. So for me the problem is with shifting pefectly good loan parts which started life at £100. Anything which started life at £60 or below goes quickly - I have no experience of ex £80 parts.
Larger loan parts used to shift quickly, even though Autobidders required at least a £10k portfolio to buy £100 loan parts. Either market conditions or Autobid has changed, or both.
The conclusion is to limit loan part sizes to £60, which fortunately I have been doing for some time.
That's £2.50 wasted in fees - now for those juicy and tempting £150k loans.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 10, 2014 15:44:21 GMT
I have checked more carefully and found that I did sell a few on Saturday. The current ones have been sticking since Wednesday - all A and B below MBR between £18 and £36.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Feb 10, 2014 18:28:49 GMT
I have checked more carefully and found that I did sell a few on Saturday. The current ones have been sticking since Wednesday - all A and B below MBR between £18 and £36. There is another point here concerning autobid. If you were going to buy through autobid would you ever set your minimum buy price below current MBR? You would have to be deprived of quite a few bits of grey matter to do that, wouldn't you? Now I appreciate for some time MBR's have been inflating slowly so it was easy to get stuck with some at or below the current MBR This is particularly so if you bought before last August when prices were real low and mostly finishing at or close to MBR.
As I said earlier I must have had luck on my side when I sold.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 10, 2014 18:39:26 GMT
I have checked more carefully and found that I did sell a few on Saturday. The current ones have been sticking since Wednesday - all A and B below MBR between £18 and £36. There is another point here concerning autobid. If you were going to buy through autobid would you ever set your minimum buy price below current MBR? You would have to be deprived of quite a few bits of grey matter to do that, wouldn't you? Now I appreciate for some time MBR's have been inflating slowly so it was easy to get stuck with some at or below the current MBR This is particularly so if you bought before last August when prices were real low and mostly finishing at or close to MBR.
As I said earlier I must have had luck on my side when I sold.
Someone must have tipped them off (or been selling them grey matter). These low-raters were flying away a couple of weeks ago! 
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 10, 2014 20:00:48 GMT
I have checked more carefully and found that I did sell a few on Saturday. The current ones have been sticking since Wednesday - all A and B below MBR between £18 and £36. There is another point here concerning autobid. If you were going to buy through autobid would you ever set your minimum buy price below current MBR? You would have to be deprived of quite a few bits of grey matter to do that, wouldn't you? If you were setting autobid from scratch then yes, you'd be stupid, however if you had it set since way-back-when you might not have hiked up the minimum and left it to FC to fix the rates upwards on the primary auctions, not realising they still use the old dud rates for the secondary market. Don't tell everyone .. but there's no other explanation for sub MBR parts selling into autobid right up until quite recently (maybe even now, if there is any money in the pots).
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Feb 10, 2014 20:39:03 GMT
There is another point here concerning autobid. If you were going to buy through autobid would you ever set your minimum buy price below current MBR? You would have to be deprived of quite a few bits of grey matter to do that, wouldn't you? If you were setting autobid from scratch then yes, you'd be stupid, however if you had it set since way-back-when you might not have hiked up the minimum and left it to FC to fix the rates upwards on the primary auctions, not realising they still use the old dud rates for the secondary market. Don't tell everyone .. but there's no other explanation for sub MBR parts selling into autobid right up until quite recently (maybe even now, if there is any money in the pots). You are right of course. Having never bought anything via autobid, I had rather stupidly assumed you could set rates for each band. I have just had a look and it is far more crude than I had previously imagined. Makes me puzzle over who in their right mind would by this way.
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Feb 10, 2014 21:02:46 GMT
You can set rates for each band, but this involves going into the "Advanced" Settings...
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 10, 2014 21:08:14 GMT
If you were setting autobid from scratch then yes, you'd be stupid, however if you had it set since way-back-when you might not have hiked up the minimum and left it to FC to fix the rates upwards on the primary auctions, not realising they still use the old dud rates for the secondary market. Don't tell everyone .. but there's no other explanation for sub MBR parts selling into autobid right up until quite recently (maybe even now, if there is any money in the pots). You are right of course. Having never bought anything via autobid, I had rather stupidly assumed you could set rates for each band. I have just had a look and it is far more crude than I had previously imagined. Makes me puzzle over who in their right mind would by this way. Maybe you have not found the 'advanced' settings where you can set rates for each band - right down to 4% if you wish, even for C-. At auctions your bid rate is taken up to the current MBR, but for the secondary market it is what you set, however silly. This principle was established last June when the MBR's were hiked up for a week from 4% to levels greater than at present. It allowed many lenders to offload thousands of loan parts, which would otherwise become unsaleable, onto the less attentive (shall we say) autobidders. A quick check shows that there are still 97 loan parts for sale at 4% buyer rate but only a few are at par and could be bought by an autobidder. A few 4% buyer rate parts are at a 3% mark up, and one of them is a C. I thought about it but decided against buying this time.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Feb 10, 2014 21:48:38 GMT
You can set rates for each band, but this involves going into the "Advanced" Settings There are three stages on the path to newbie enlightenment, autobid, advanced autobid, NO AUTOBID. :>.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Feb 10, 2014 21:55:57 GMT
You can set rates for each band, but this involves going into the "Advanced" Settings There are three stages on the path to newbie enlightenment, autobid, advanced autobid, NO AUTOBID. :>. That took me about 4m33s! Since then I've been very cagy!  but not always silent!
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Feb 10, 2014 23:26:17 GMT
There are three stages on the path to newbie enlightenment, autobid, advanced autobid, NO AUTOBID. :>. That took me about 4m33s! Since then I've been very cagy! but not always silent! Same goes for me thus my ignorance of how autobid worked. It must be at least a year or more ago that I last had a looked at it and for the second and last time decided it was not for me thus my ignorance of developments since. However now having had a further look at the "advanced settings" I still would not have used it to buy anything but use it indirectly to dispose of "non-performing" and suspect parts.
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blender
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Post by blender on Feb 11, 2014 0:12:44 GMT
When there was too much lender cash the autobidders at MBR were keeping rates low. But now they are a great help. On today's large A loan, the chunk of autobid money at MBR, 7.9%, balanced the top end manual bidders at 11.3% and 11.2%, with a good chance of the average of 9.5% being acceptable to the borrower. We are now getting rewards for taking the trouble to choose loans and bid near the close of the auction.
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jimbo
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Post by jimbo on Feb 11, 2014 11:31:14 GMT
I do wonder just how many Funding Circle lenders are using Autobid, and have the feeling it's probably somewhere between 80 - 90%. I appreciate this probably seems high at first glance. However, according to the recent official communications from Funding Circle, just under 6000 people have managed to take advantage of the recent double digit interest rates. Given there are now over 67,000 people lending on the platform, and that I cannot understand why anybody manually bidding wouldn't have been able to secure themselves the double digit rates in recent weeks, I can only deduce that less than 10% of platform users are in fact manually bidding.
If this assumption is correct, this is a wonderful advantage for those of us who don't use Autobid. We have an army of people who will help to ensure the overall loan is funded at an interest rate acceptable to the Borrower whilst supporting our individual higher rates. We also have a ready market of potential buyers when it comes to reducing our exposure to individual loans. I just wonder how long this will last before more recent joiners of the platform get wise to this...
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on Feb 11, 2014 12:05:25 GMT
I do wonder just how many Funding Circle lenders are using Autobid, and have the feeling it's probably somewhere between 80 - 90%. I appreciate this probably seems high at first glance. However, according to the recent official communications from Funding Circle, just under 6000 people have managed to take advantage of the recent double digit interest rates. Given there are now over 67,000 people lending on the platform, and that I cannot understand why anybody manually bidding wouldn't have been able to secure themselves the double digit rates in recent weeks, I can only deduce that less than 10% of platform users are in fact manually bidding. If this assumption is correct, this is a wonderful advantage for those of us who don't use Autobid. We have an army of people who will help to ensure the overall loan is funded at an interest rate acceptable to the Borrower whilst supporting our individual higher rates. We also have a ready market of potential buyers when it comes to reducing our exposure to individual loans. I just wonder how long this will last before more recent joiners of the platform get wise to this... Long may ignorance rule, I say. With rates rising as they have I have been tempted back and today took a chunk of a "B" at 12.3%. This is almost like the good old days of 12 months or more ago. If this keeps up I can meet the defaults, pay 40% tax and still turn a profit! However I must admit it is a bit too time consuming to get too involved and maybe this is another reason people turn to autobid?
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but not always silent!