wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Oct 1, 2015 18:56:50 GMT
IIRC the 20% was initially linked only to (theoretical) API use. It has now been formalised in the general T&C - fair enough. FC is disingenuous in referring to bot users only as it has also contacted manual (non-bot users). Many of the forum members here and on the official FC form make an argument about bot use but are clearly unable to tell the difference between a bot and non-bot user. The policy should apply to all users but there is the problem as the general platform position w.r.t. IT (lack of ambition, incompetence, call it what you will) means there is no solution on the FC end to simply stop accepting bids if/when a % limit is reached. Hence we have this laughable situation of calling round. nick. If you were not one of the lucky ones to receive a call you took almost 30% of one of this afternoon's E auctions from what I can see so you were in breach of the T&C; I don't know whether you received a call beforehand and simply ignored it? In the absence of implementing a proper (software) solution then the situation collapses if FC continues to selectively allow certain users to disregard its T&C. The concentration of bids is also worse at the moment as FC has deliberately throttled back on (SME loan) dealfow around the switch to fixed-rates. If the current bias towards the institutional whole loan market moderates then the situation should improve/appear less extreme.
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nick
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Post by nick on Oct 1, 2015 23:29:50 GMT
IIRC the 20% was initially linked only to (theoretical) API use. It has now been formalised in the general T&C - fair enough. FC is disingenuous in referring to bot users only as it has also contacted manual (non-bot users). Many of the forum members here and on the official FC form make an argument about bot use but are clearly unable to tell the difference between a bot and non-bot user. The policy should apply to all users but there is the problem as the general platform position w.r.t. IT (lack of ambition, incompetence, call it what you will) means there is no solution on the FC end to simply stop accepting bids if/when a % limit is reached. Hence we have this laughable situation of calling round. nick. If you were not one of the lucky ones to receive a call you took almost 30% of one of this afternoon's E auctions from what I can see so you were in breach of the T&C; I don't know whether you received a call beforehand and simply ignored it? In the absence of implementing a proper (software) solution then the situation collapses if FC continues to selectively allow certain users to disregard its T&C. The concentration of bids is also worse at the moment as FC has deliberately throttled back on (SME loan) dealfow around the switch to fixed-rates. If the current bias towards the institutional whole loan market moderates then the situation should improve/appear less extreme. I did get a call after the event. I hadn't noticed the change in the T&C and the 20% rule, but obviously I'm aware now. Btw I don't use a bot, I just keep my hand down on the space bar which fires off 2-3 bids a second...........
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Oct 2, 2015 0:49:06 GMT
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Post by goldservice on Oct 2, 2015 8:32:13 GMT
16122(E) gone in 1 minute, with B*z picking up almost all of it from what I can see. Well at least with 3 E's being listed at the same time it looks like he couldn't hover everything up at the same time............I wonder how long that will last I didn't bid on 16122 so I can't look at the bidding history. Can anyone tell me what % B*z got? Has anyone asked Fetching & Carrying why they allowed more than 20% and what are they doing about it?
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 2, 2015 9:02:00 GMT
Has anyone asked Fetching & Carrying why they allowed more than 20% and what are they doing about it? Yep - I asked if there was really no way they could prevent further bids beyond 20%... Becky replied to say that they might think about possibly taking action if the bad men don't stop being horrid. Which wasn't what I asked...
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Oct 2, 2015 9:14:36 GMT
Has anyone asked Fetching & Carrying why they allowed more than 20% and what are they doing about it? Yep - I asked if there was really no way they could prevent further bids beyond 20%... Becky replied to say that they might think about possibly taking action if the bad men don't stop being horrid. Which wasn't what I asked... Maybe they should ask Ed to borrow the Shuang. Hed get a 20% bid limit coded on his tea break probably. (Of course, thats a philosophical construct as we all know he doesnt take tea breaks ... or eat  )
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Oct 2, 2015 9:27:24 GMT
Has anyone asked Fetching & Carrying why they allowed more than 20% and what are they doing about it? Yep - I asked if there was really no way they could prevent further bids beyond 20%... Becky replied to say that they might think about possibly taking action if the bad men don't stop being horrid. Which wasn't what I asked... Most of their loans have 100% of the bid taken by one buyer so I wouldn't expect them to be bothered by someone taking 20%. What I am surprised by is that they haven't stopped people (bots) placing hundreds of bids per minute. Why don't they just throttle number of bids to 5 per minute and 50 per hour. This would help their server load, bandwidth and would have no impact on the vast majority of customers.
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Oct 2, 2015 9:29:06 GMT
Has anyone asked Fetching & Carrying why they allowed more than 20% and what are they doing about it? Yep - I asked if there was really no way they could prevent further bids beyond 20%... Becky replied to say that they might think about possibly taking action if the bad men don't stop being horrid. Which wasn't what I asked... I also queried loan bidding limits, bot usage & abuse of the system; they replied "monitoring, concerned, reserve right to take action etc..." JUST EASIER TO SUMMARISE IN 2 WORDS - F##K ALL
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fasty
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Post by fasty on Oct 2, 2015 9:52:10 GMT
Yep - I asked if there was really no way they could prevent further bids beyond 20%... Becky replied to say that they might think about possibly taking action if the bad men don't stop being horrid. Which wasn't what I asked... Most of their loans have 100% of the bid taken by one buyer so I wouldn't expect them to be bothered by someone taking 20%. What I am surprised by is that they haven't stopped people (bots) placing hundreds of bids per minute. Why don't they just throttle number of bids to 5 per minute and 50 per hour. This would help their server load, bandwidth and would have no impact on the vast majority of customers. Indeed. I have calculated that one of the well-known offenders can sustain a rate exceeding 5 bids per second. Unfortunately experience of the last few years suggest to me that FC simply don't know how to change their own software to address issues like this. It really feels like the original authors departed without leaving documentation or commented code. It also explains why so many glaring bugs never get fixed.
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grahamg
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Post by grahamg on Oct 2, 2015 10:01:56 GMT
But isn't it so comforting to know that it only takes 5 bots/flippers to fill a loan and that Frantic Children are monitoring them to make sure they play nicely with each other.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Oct 2, 2015 10:29:04 GMT
But isn't it so comforting to know that it only takes 5 bots/flippers to fill a loan and that Frantic Children are monitoring them to make sure they play nicely with each other. Used to be much more enjoyable watching when they would repeatedly undercut each other. Now they're all forced to bid at the same rate, it's lost its theatre.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 2, 2015 10:33:48 GMT
Most of their loans have 100% of the bid taken by one buyer <grin> I think whole loans are different...
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Oct 2, 2015 10:34:21 GMT
Unfortunately experience of the last few years suggest to me that FC simply don't know how to change their own software to address issues like this. It really feels like the original authors departed without leaving documentation or commented code. It also explains why so many glaring bugs never get fixed. Worryingly, I think you might be right.
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arbster
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Post by arbster on Oct 2, 2015 10:41:32 GMT
Unfortunately experience of the last few years suggest to me that FC simply don't know how to change their own software to address issues like this. It really feels like the original authors departed without leaving documentation or commented code. It also explains why so many glaring bugs never get fixed. Worryingly, I think you might be right. Goodness only know what kind of technical havoc they're wreaking, wherever they ended up...
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Post by goldservice on Oct 2, 2015 11:40:35 GMT
Should be easy: the platform already pauses to check things (eg have you enough funds) after each bid is placed. After the bid is accepted, the total bid so far is displayed. During that pause approx one line of code could be inserted to compare the total bid so far with the loan size. Obviously Flaky Coding has some competence and could make this change immediately- perhaps the reason why they do not do this lies elsewhere. Eg perhaps they make non-emergency changes to the code only on a weekly timeframe ...
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