mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 21, 2014 19:33:21 GMT
If loans are oversubscribed (not checked when creating a pre-bid) then it may still be worth creating a pre-bid as it is possible that some people ahead of you in the queue will have insufficient cleared funds at the start of the auction and therefore their pre-bids will be skipped in preference for yours. As pre-bids are converted into bids at the point and auction opens any bids placed before then (by site administrators) will still take precedence however I expect that practice to be phased out in preference for registering pre-bids instead. We have also updated the horseshoe graph so that pre-bids are shown and the tooltips for each segment give more information (actual amount as well as percentage). When an auction is being previewed the graphs are now present but are grey shaded to reflect that the auction is in preview. If a loan is oversubscribed, will it be possible to see by how much? i.e. Does the 'tooltip' 1 stop increasing when pre-bids exceed 100%? Or could it show "Pre-bids: £310,000 (106.90%)"? If a loan is oversubscribed, I think it would be useful to know by how much. If any pre-opening bids are placed by AC admin, do they show up in the chart? And further to my previous question, if a loan becomes completely funded as the pre-bids are processed, is it fair to presume that the last included pre-bid will be given the part of the loan remaining rather than failing because it was a bid for more than still is available? 1 Might 'hint' be a better description than 'tooltip' since there isn't a tool involved?
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j
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Post by j on Jan 21, 2014 20:10:19 GMT
I think the most significant question when a loan would be overfilled by pre bids, which bids get in and which ones don't? If it's in the order the pre bids are created, then we should blindly all rush to create pre bids as soon any loan appears, then take them out at the very last minute if we don't like it. I hate taking things to logical extremes but... I think Chris indicated that the system registers pre-bids as real bids when auction opens by order pre-bids were initially placed. So one would assume that yes, your 'extreme' scenario might be applicable, though I would think that AC would prefer to avoid that. In the event it does happen, the simple situation arises that some lenders pull out & others take their place, just like any auction that fills up slower than others might. Unless it was similar to the fishy one recently which got pulled altogether due to many vague issues.
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Jan 21, 2014 20:13:30 GMT
Chris, on the horseshoe thingy, the tooltip thing does not work for me when I hover over it, it simply shows the grey areas. I'm using the latest ie version (is it ie 9) & windows 7? I'm speaking out of my comfort zone here, but is it java-related or something totally unrelated?
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Post by chris on Jan 21, 2014 20:15:57 GMT
If someone places a pre-bid of £500, and there happens to be only £363.27 in their account at the time the loan goes live, what exactly would happen? - Their pre-bid is skipped completely, and isn't turned into a real bid unless further funds come into the account -- presuming the loan still is available for funding at the time the next hourly check is made?
- A bid of £363.27 is placed, and if further funds come into the account before the loan is completely funded then other bids are placed until the total of the bids comes to £500?
- A round bid of £300, or £350, or
 is placed, and if further funds arrive before the loan is completely funded then other bids are placed? - Or...?
If it's the first possibility, then the lender would seem to be better off if they placed a series of smaller bids that summed to their desired investment. If someone places a £500 bid and there is only £363.27 in their account then the bid wouldn't be placed. Our original implementation only allowed lenders to choose a single amount to prebid on each auction, allowing them to edit the amount or delete it but not have more than one amount. That was to be their commitment to the loan rather than letting them place multiple amounts. In the end it just felt too far removed, interface wise, from bidding which we thought would confuse people. So we simplified it and kept it as a straight instruction, including keeping the amount placed as being exactly the amount requested. No adjustments, no placing as much as it can, either the system can place the bid or it can't. We can make it more sophisticated down the road but for now that's where it is. If funds become available then at the next 'tick' then the full bid for £500 is placed then. You are of course welcome to follow any strategy you like 
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 21, 2014 20:19:10 GMT
I think the most significant question when a loan would be overfilled by pre bids, which bids get in and which ones don't? The first message in this thread included... The system checks each minute for auctions that are becoming live and as soon as it detects a situation where pre-bids can be converted into real bids it will iterate through each pre-bid in the order they were placed. [Emphasis above is mine.] If it's in the order the pre bids are created, then we should blindly all rush to create pre bids as soon any loan appears, then take them out at the very last minute if we don't like it. I hate taking things to logical extremes but... This does appear to be the logical action to take. And that may be what's happening with tomorrow's loan (KBL), which is 34+% filled by pre-bids at the moment. But the limits AC are placing on total bids per lender during the first 48 hours should go a long way towards preventing pre-bidding from resulting in oversubscriptions. As the list of potential lenders continues to grow, so will the issue, but that can be addressed by tighter bidding restrictions. It won't really become a problem until AC start finding that a large proportion of pre-bids are being made solely as 'place-holders' and aren't backed up by funds in accounts when a loan goes live. I expect it'll be a case of try it and see how it works out.
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Post by chris on Jan 21, 2014 20:20:36 GMT
If a loan is oversubscribed, will it be possible to see by how much? i.e. Does the 'tooltip' 1 stop increasing when pre-bids exceed 100%? Or could it show "Pre-bids: £310,000 (106.90%)"? If a loan is oversubscribed, I think it would be useful to know by how much. If any pre-opening bids are placed by AC admin, do they show up in the chart? And further to my previous question, if a loan becomes completely funded as the pre-bids are processed, is it fair to presume that the last included pre-bid will be given the part of the loan remaining rather than failing because it was a bid for more than still is available? 1 Might 'hint' be a better description than 'tooltip' since there isn't a tool involved? Tooltip is a technical term, but happy to refer to it as a hint. The hint will show whatever has been bid, so will tell you it that it's 735% if that's what it is. Any pre-opening bids are placed will show up on the graph as before. A pre-bid will be truncated if that is all that is left available on the loan (the bid for the full amount is requested and then automatically truncated by the existing bid system).
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Post by batchoy on Jan 21, 2014 20:20:47 GMT
I think the most significant question when a loan would be overfilled by pre bids, which bids get in and which ones don't? If it's in the order the pre bids are created, then we should blindly all rush to create pre bids as soon any loan appears, then take them out at the very last minute if we don't like it. I hate taking things to logical extremes but... Reading chris's original post pre-bids are processed in placement order, so as you suggest their is the potential for a pre-bidding frenzy where lenders a bumped into pre-bidding in order to secure loan parts before the final credit reports and supporting documents have been released and thus the possibility of doing any proper due diligence, which is the key thing that worries me. The ability to cancel pre-bids is sensible, however I feel that this as the potential of exacerbating the problem, with no commitment there is nothing to prevent everyone bidding as soon as the pre-bidding opens. On the face of it pre-bidding solves issue of people missing out as a result of not being available when the auction opens, however it potentially only makes the problem worse by simply moving the issue from the start of the auction to the start of pre-bidding whilst at the same time bumping lenders into making pre-bids without proper DD.
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Post by chris on Jan 21, 2014 20:24:01 GMT
Chris, on the horseshoe thingy, the tooltip thing does not work for me when I hover over it, it simply shows the grey areas. I'm using the latest ie version (is it ie 9) & windows 7? I'm speaking out of my comfort zone here, but is it java-related or something totally unrelated? I'm not sure whether or not IE supports the tooltips / hints as used by the underlying SVG used to draw the graph - as IE requires a series of hacks in order to display anything at all I'd suspect it may not. Not sure if I can do anything to help in that situation but I'll speak with our front end developer to see if we can come up with an alternative solution.
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Post by phlitb on Jan 21, 2014 20:56:23 GMT
Under Windows 7 the tooltip works fine for Firefox 26, but not for IE11. From my own limited experience of developing and maintaining websites I have a great deal of sympathy for anyone trying to make a bespoke website work for all browsers in all environments. I reckon that if you develop for a reasonably compliant browser such as FF then you should allow another triple or quadruple your initial development time to get it to work sensibly for IE, tablets, phones, other OS's etc.
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Post by batchoy on Jan 21, 2014 21:06:44 GMT
Tool tip doesn't work with IE11 on Windows 8.1, it does work with Chrome 33 Beta, I have no idea with Chrome 32 stable, as Chrome 32 stable doesn't work with Windows 8.1, and is unstable on Windows 7.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Jan 21, 2014 21:10:53 GMT
On the face of it pre-bidding solves issue of people missing out as a result of not being available when the auction opens, however it potentially only makes the problem worse by simply moving the issue from the start of the auction to the start of pre-bidding whilst at the same time bumping lenders into making pre-bids without proper DD. That's where limiting bids by lenders becomes so useful. Perhaps a refinement of that would be to place even lower limits on bid sizes for pre-bids than on 'live' bids. That way lenders who can't be bidding the instant a loan goes live would be able to get at least a small part, and those who want more are forced to wait until all the info is available and the loan finally is released for bidding.
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Post by bracknellboy on Jan 21, 2014 21:47:36 GMT
...as Chrome 32 stable doesn't work with Windows 8.1, and is unstable on Windows 7..... Right. I'm glad that's clear then.
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j
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Penguins are very misunderstood!
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Post by j on Jan 22, 2014 7:42:40 GMT
Chris, on the horseshoe thingy, the tooltip thing does not work for me when I hover over it, it simply shows the grey areas. I'm using the latest ie version (is it ie 9) & windows 7? I'm speaking out of my comfort zone here, but is it java-related or something totally unrelated? I'm not sure whether or not IE supports the tooltips / hints as used by the underlying SVG used to draw the graph - as IE requires a series of hacks in order to display anything at all I'd suspect it may not. Not sure if I can do anything to help in that situation but I'll speak with our front end developer to see if we can come up with an alternative solution. I've found the perfect solution! I've started using Firefox which circumnavigates all the above issues
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Post by chris on Jan 22, 2014 9:38:42 GMT
Another small update just went live to significantly speed up the buying of loan parts on the aftermarket. This will be particularly noticeable when buying in bulk.
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Post by batchoy on Jan 22, 2014 10:09:55 GMT
Another update that I may not have picked up on yesterday, the totaliser in the top right shows my available balance and not the total loaned by AC. It was quite a shock this morning to see that AC had gone from £14M to £5k loaned overnight until I read the small text and realised it was my balance.
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is placed, and if further funds arrive before the loan is completely funded then other bids are placed?
