arbster
Member of DD Central
Posts: 810 
Likes: 426
|
Post by arbster on Oct 19, 2015 8:29:34 GMT
Presumably manual buyers and not autobiddies then. 8>. You piqued my interest... having looked through a few recent auctions on the primary market, my main recent buyer of large loan parts has also been putting £2k bids on every new auction (1 per auction), usually within a couple of hours of the auction going live. It strongly points to them being an autobid user with very deep pockets. If it was Autobid it would be unusual for them to get into every auction, especially with such a large bid, as it would represent a large proportion of the 65% limit allocated to Autobid, and there appears to be some kind of round-robin mechanism going on. I suspect a manual bidder.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Oct 19, 2015 9:19:34 GMT
Presumably manual buyers and not autobiddies then. 8>. You piqued my interest... having looked through a few recent auctions on the primary market, my main recent buyer of large loan parts has also been putting £2k bids on every new auction (1 per auction), usually within a couple of hours of the auction going live. It strongly points to them being an autobid user with very deep pockets. But I presume you sold them parts at a markup, so that wasn't autobid.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Oct 19, 2015 9:44:21 GMT
But I presume you sold them parts at a markup, so that wasn't autobid. Nope... sold at par (having bought at a discount). Edit: If it was Autobid it would be unusual for them to get into every auction, especially with such a large bid, as it would represent a large proportion of the 65% limit allocated to Autobid, and there appears to be some kind of round-robin mechanism going on. I suspect a manual bidder. I should have been more specific - I was looking at the new auctions that still remained available for bidding this morning. I recall several of these took quite a long time even to reach 50% funding, let alone 65%. I wonder if Autobid has some kind of overall limit (set by FC) for how much it will invest in the secondary market per hour/day/cycle of autobid / ... If so, a large bidder with a lot of money to invest could potentially use up a good chunk of that quota so that the smaller autobidders seeking only £20 units don't get a look-in on the secondary market...?
|
|
blender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,719
Likes: 4,272
|
Post by blender on Oct 19, 2015 10:11:39 GMT
Autobid is FC's creature and perhaps their most important servant in the management of efficient filling of loans. I guess they have quite a lot of undeclared functionality in controlling the way in which it goes about its nefarious business. I know that I would do that. With fixed rates they are no longer needing ways of managing the average rates at auction - autobid, the split between whole loans and partial, and the adjustments to MBR. And so they can just task autobid with filling the loans with minimum cash back.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 6,437
|
Post by registerme on Oct 19, 2015 10:33:26 GMT
If I were the FCA I would be extremely interested in looking into how autobid works, how it has changed over time (they do have a change log, right), who can change it, when it's changed, why it's changed, and what the impact on the market is. There is an awful lot of scope for abuse there.
|
|
arbster
Member of DD Central
Posts: 810
Likes: 426
|
Post by arbster on Oct 19, 2015 10:45:30 GMT
If I were the FCA I would be extremely interested in looking into how autobid works, how it has changed over time (they do have a change log, right), who can change it, when it's changed, why it's changed, and what the impact on the market is. There is an awful lot of scope for abuse there. I expect it's very simple and hasn't changed much over time for exactly those reasons. If it does anything other than give its users an equal chance (over time) of investing their funds in the loans that meet the users' criteria, then it could be accused of manipulation, etc. Given that FC employees are required to use Autobid for all their investments, I presume it will be very dumb and not be open to manipulation at all. It could, of course, be possible to favour PM loans over SM loans.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 6,437
|
Post by registerme on Oct 19, 2015 11:01:21 GMT
Indeed, and doing so would act against the interests of those selling parts on the SM so........
|
|
jamesc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 447
Likes: 253
|
Post by jamesc on Oct 19, 2015 11:17:19 GMT
I not sure what other are seeing but I have sold more in the last two hours than the last three days combined largely prop both manual and auto bids so perhaps FC have turned back the switch
|
|
acky
Posts: 481
Likes: 262
|
Post by acky on Oct 19, 2015 12:22:00 GMT
I not sure what other are seeing but I have sold more in the last two hours than the last three days combined largely prop both manual and auto bids so perhaps FC have turned back the switch No, SM sales still dried up for me, and I put a lot more on the market yesterday in a desperate attempt to revive them.
|
|
|
|
Post by bonfemme on Oct 19, 2015 12:53:16 GMT
I not sure what other are seeing but I have sold more in the last two hours than the last three days combined largely prop both manual and auto bids so perhaps FC have turned back the switch Me too. Selling much more - again, mostly property
|
|
ablender
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,204
Likes: 555
|
Post by ablender on Oct 19, 2015 14:35:20 GMT
I am not selling anything. But I am not ready to reduce the price. If anyone wants better rates than FC is currently offering I do not see why I need to.
Remind me, what was the point of introducing -20% in the first place? And why not a +20% on the other side?
|
|
|
|
Post by aloanatlast on Oct 20, 2015 3:16:47 GMT
If I were the FCA I would be extremely interested in looking into how autobid works, how it has changed over time (they do have a change log, right), who can change it, when it's changed, why it's changed, and what the impact on the market is. There is an awful lot of scope for abuse there. I wouldn't credit Autobid with any smarts at all, beyond its policy of preferring least % filled, which is no longer very smart.
And I don't think the regulators are interested in how the market operates. It's a private arrangement, not a public exchange. It lives in the financial third world where anything goes, caveat emptor. You have only the contracts with the borrowers - you have nothing to say that FC won't manipulate the market in their own interests.
|
|
registerme
Member of DD Central
Posts: 6,624
Likes: 6,437
|
Post by registerme on Oct 20, 2015 8:42:35 GMT
You're right, I don't have anything to say that FC won't manipulate the market in their own interest. Having said that I would be astonished if they were to do this precisely because I cannot see it as incurring anything other than extreme regulatory risk. I realise that this is "innovative finance", and that P2P platforms are operating under a light regulatory touch, but being able to deliberately favour one set of investors over another, for instance by changing the proportion of monies that flow to the PM or SM depending on PM demand, or even more extreme, to point autobid in the direction on one set of owned loan parts rather than another, is hugely manipulative and open to massive abuse. I find thinking that any company could be so stupid to be rather difficult.
Put simply, in my view unless a market / exchange is free from manipulation it ceases to function as a market / exchange. Look at the recent regulatory fines handed down over dark pools.
Am I just being naive?
|
|
