blender
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Post by blender on Dec 5, 2015 9:59:29 GMT
No, sold parts stops showing them when they are repaid or defaulted. Another example of transparency, NOT. Need to archive sales reports yourself if you want something to check transaction reports with. But this loan is neither repaid nor defaulted - just RBR. It looks a bit like special measures to reduce visibility, unless they have recently made changes to make it more difficult to see them washing the dirty linen.
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Post by nightmare on Dec 5, 2015 10:30:16 GMT
"A very profitable company where I feel I can ride the new added pressure of more stringent credit terms however I'd prefer to increase the working capital for the short term to prevent awkward conversations with suppliers."
I suppose a conversion that starts with the supplier asking about the £56,000 that you owe them could be a tad awkward.
In all seriousness though, if the £50k from FC was to pay off this debt then how come the CCJ still went ahead. Also for those more in the know about these things does it mean that the £56k creditors will have preference over FC lenders in the event of the company going belly up?
PS. I see that the first payment due date (to FC) is 9th Dec, it will be interesting to see if this goes through.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 5, 2015 11:13:05 GMT
I would be very surprised if the first repayment was not made - from the £50k (from which FC's fee will have been taken). The difficult conversation with FC will be about who knew what when and whether the assessment was and is still correct. I doubt they will be allowed another £50k.
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nick
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Post by nick on Dec 5, 2015 12:03:09 GMT
"A very profitable company where I feel I can ride the new added pressure of more stringent credit terms however I'd prefer to increase the working capital for the short term to prevent awkward conversations with suppliers." I suppose a conversion that starts with the supplier asking about the £56,000 that you owe them could be a tad awkward. In all seriousness though, if the £50k from FC was to pay off this debt then how come the CCJ still went ahead. Also for those more in the know about these things does it mean that the £56k creditors will have preference over FC lenders in the event of the company going belly up? PS. I see that the first payment due date (to FC) is 9th Dec, it will be interesting to see if this goes through. The creditor who has been awarded the CCJ is still an unsecured creditor and will have no preference over other creditors in the event of wind-up. Without sight of the court documents, it is difficult to determine the nature of the dispute, e.g. whether the debtor genuinely disputed the debt for whatever reason, or, simply didn't have the means to pay. What is clear, is that the debtor lost the court case. I imagine there are question marks over the debtors disclosure to FC. If the question asked was have any CCJ's been awarded against you and they had answered no, this would have been a valid response if the court had yet to make judgement at that time (I don't when the judgement was issued). However, I would have expected that FC would have enquired on whether the company was subject to any pending legal action as a standard part of their application, to which the debtor should have disclosed this dispute. The fact that they may have made a fraudulent representation on the application wouldn't monetarily given a PG is already in place, but I would hope that if there had been mis-representation, the matter is referred to the police to consider criminal charges as a future deterrent to then and others. Whilst the size of the CCJ is of concern, I wouldn't get too worried until they actually default on payments which we will soon find out...........
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 5, 2015 13:55:51 GMT
Of course we hope it makes all the payments. However it would be better for lenders if it made none rather than just one or two. The precursor on undiscovered CCJs is 4907, where it was RBRd after a few days and has never recovered. It seemed then that it was FC's job to find pending or new CCJs rather than the borrower's job to disclose them (see threads on another place, notably by hor1997 who was proved right imo). Procedures were changed and CCJ limits increased (from £250). But 4907 made some payments before the inevitable and still makes recoveries, erratically, because the guarantor company still trades. If this one defaults we can kiss it goodbye because it has no assets other than debtors. No stocks, small tangible fixed assets - book £17k. I bought some to flip and still have a small amount. Others are probably in a potentially much worse position.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 5, 2015 14:18:33 GMT
No, sold parts stops showing them when they are repaid or defaulted. Another example of transparency, NOT. Need to archive sales reports yourself if you want something to check transaction reports with. But this loan is neither repaid nor defaulted - just RBR. It looks a bit like special measures to reduce visibility, unless they have recently made changes to make it more difficult to see them washing the dirty linen. RBR is the same as defaulted as far as viewing sold parts is concerned. Basically you can only view your sales of any loan which remains live/saleable.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 5, 2015 14:35:43 GMT
Is that new? I seem to remember being able to see if I had previously sold parts in defaulted loans - checking on my policy of selling those which had returned from late etc. I could see designer jeans because I had sold a part. On checking now, my sold parts now seems to show rather lass than it did (taking account of the fact that most is now property). Can you not see sold parts of loans which are currently 'processing'? A reduction in transparency is right.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Dec 5, 2015 14:48:21 GMT
Does RBR show in the loanbook? When I look at 17063 it shows as status repaying and the the risk band is E, so it hasn't been removed. (In fact no loan seems to have the risk band removed in the loanbook.)
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Dec 5, 2015 16:03:40 GMT
Argh, passed over this twice, then bought £20 quid's worth to use up a bit of spare cash - just to see how another of these 'E' things pans out - an hour or so before it dropped. Knew it looked dodgy, should have listened to myself. Have a night out on me.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 5, 2015 16:38:22 GMT
Does RBR show in the loanbook? When I look at 17063 it shows as status repaying and the the risk band is E, so it hasn't been removed. (In fact no loan seems to have the risk band removed in the loanbook.) No, the loan book always shows the original risk band. It will show late, retry, default etc as the loan status, but afaik RBR is not recorded as such .. yet another small loophole which makes it hard to figure out what is really going on. On the upside, this is one place you can actually see the original risk band of the defaulted loans! Unless the loan actually goes late there may never be any record of this event, apart, I suppose, from the comment, which will be accessible if parts in the loan should ever be allowed to go on sale again. Back on this specific case, it will be interesting to see how swiftly the chaps (and chap-esses, but I think most of the recovery team are chaps) at Fawlty Chasing manage to extract some replies from the borrower.
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nick
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Post by nick on Dec 5, 2015 18:57:14 GMT
Of course we hope it makes all the payments. However it would be better for lenders if it made none rather than just one or two. The precursor on undiscovered CCJs is 4907, where it was RBRd after a few days and has never recovered. It seemed then that it was FC's job to find pending or new CCJs rather than the borrower's job to disclose them (see threads on another place, notably by hor1997 who was proved right imo). Procedures were changed and CCJ limits increased (from £250). But 4907 made some payments before the inevitable and still makes recoveries, erratically, because the guarantor company still trades. If this one defaults we can kiss it goodbye because it has no assets other than debtors. No stocks, small tangible fixed assets - book £17k. I bought some to flip and still have a small amount. Others are probably in a potentially much worse position. Unfortunately, whilst it is easy to check whether company has a CCJ (as they are centrally recorded on a public registry on the day of judgement), I'm not sure how anyone could efficiently determine whether anyone is currently pending legal action unless they disclose this themselves. Many years ago when I was an auditor the only way we could get comfort that there was no undisclosed pending legal action (and thus potential unrecorded liabilities or contingent liabilities requiring disclosure) was to write to all legal counsel used by the company - a slow, inefficient, and imperfect process. I can't imagine things have changed much in the absence of any registers of any pending or threatened legal action.
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Dec 5, 2015 20:29:02 GMT
But this loan is neither repaid nor defaulted - just RBR. It looks a bit like special measures to reduce visibility, unless they have recently made changes to make it more difficult to see them washing the dirty linen. RBR is the same as defaulted as far as viewing sold parts is concerned. Basically you can only view your sales of any loan which remains live/saleable. Is that true? Using the Secondary Market 'Loan Parts Sold' tab I can see sales where the loan has been defaulted without first being RBR'd; loan part sales for loans RBR'd and then subsequently defaulted have been removed though, as you noted. If these deletions are indeed "special measures to reduce visibility", as you put it, then they are not particularly effective as the offending transactions can generally be accessed via the 'My Statements' functionality on the Summary page.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 5, 2015 21:41:17 GMT
I can't find any of mine which went defaulted without RBR, so I can't check, but quite possibly you are right and it is RBR which 'vanishes' loans (as well as repayment) rather than defaulting.
Yes, you can see the part sales in your transactions, but that doesn't give you a link to the loan (or even the loan ID), or details of the buyers, or suchlike, just the loan part number and date/price sold.
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wysiati
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Post by wysiati on Dec 5, 2015 22:07:05 GMT
Would you be good enough to share the loan number concerned? We will take that as a 'no', then. Probably a wise decision. Apologies for the tardiness in responding - have been disengaged for a bit. FWIW, just to confirm, 17063 was/is the subject of the earlier post within this thread. The appearance of the comment/question on the official FC Community Forum yesterday afternoon appears to have prompted some action at FC HQ and it is now RBR'd. I do have a potential issue with the comment now posted with a time stamp of 17.45pm on 04/12/15 on the loan's 'Repayments' tab. This suggests that FC had only just become aware of the issue. AIUI, there is a policy in place whereby (I paraphrase here so it may not be an entirely accurate representation) those who purchased a loan part on the secondary market in an issue which subsequently defaults / sustains a loss may be compensated if the purchase date falls after the point at which FC agrees it should have acted based on information it may have received, e.g. from a credit alert. Those who purchased from approx 1st December onwards may wish to make a case on that basis as the information was discoverable, although this may well prove moot if the CCJ situation can successfully be managed/challenged by the borrower which would, of course, be the preferred outcome.
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Post by bonfemme on Dec 6, 2015 7:37:45 GMT
Of course we hope it makes all the payments. However it would be better for lenders if it made none rather than just one or two. The precursor on undiscovered CCJs is 4907, where it was RBRd after a few days and has never recovered. It seemed then that it was FC's job to find pending or new CCJs rather than the borrower's job to disclose them (see threads on another place, notably by hor1997 who was proved right imo). Procedures were changed and CCJ limits increased (from £250). But 4907 made some payments before the inevitable and still makes recoveries, erratically, because the guarantor company still trades. If this one defaults we can kiss it goodbye because it has no assets other than debtors. No stocks, small tangible fixed assets - book £17k. I bought some to flip and still have a small amount. Others are probably in a potentially much worse position. No need to worry, it's impossible for this loan to default. Blender bought some and he has "a strict 'no more defaults' policy."
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