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Post by ladywhitenap on Dec 5, 2015 11:04:45 GMT
Although not part of my original plan, I am having to move towards that approach by raising my prefund level on all but the biggest loans. I can only presume that those who are running bots are benefiting from my 'cast offs' as I have had virtually no luck with the Sm as a buyer. I do have a degree of impatience with the slow movement of the pipeline even though I understand the need for the slow period we had whilst the new website went live. Now we have 9 loans in the pipeline but a dearth of information on them. I think on balance I would almost prefer not to see loans visible in the PL until there were valuations and loan particulars to read and possibly discuss here.
LW
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Dec 5, 2015 11:38:55 GMT
I think on balance I would almost prefer not to see loans visible in the PL until there were valuations and loan particulars to read and possibly discuss here. LW Prior to pre-funding, a mere three months ago, we didn't get any documents at all, you had to buy virtually immediately if you wanted a loan part. Thanks to the very liquid SM you could dispose of it if on reading the docs you decided you didn't like the loan. I think pre-funding which has now applied to 15 loans is brilliant, That we get loan documents a while before they go live is a great and welcome improvement, and I find the pipeline reassuring in that at least I know there are loans on the way even if some get pulled. In the four months you have been investing SS have launched an average of more than one loan a week, pretty impressive in my book.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 5, 2015 11:58:37 GMT
Highlandtiger, the current model may well work perfectly for you and other established investors but I am trying to establish a portfolio with the source funds earning next to nothing elsewhere. I have set a plan of investing £60k diversified across at least 30 loans on SS. It has taken over 4 months so far to place £40k on 24 loans and whilst the pre-funding of new loans has helped hugely, buying on the SM would be of great benefit to achieving my plan. I do not accept that 4 months to place 2/3rds of my budget is an acceptable rate of progress or that I'm being impatient. LW I think that having invested £40k in 4 months earning 1%/month compared to "next to nothing elsewhere" is not something to complain about. You can easily invest your remaining £20k on the loans available in the pipeline then sell what you do not want. You will be in the most enviable position of feeding us little fish.
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ianj
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Post by ianj on Dec 5, 2015 12:52:29 GMT
Highlandtiger, the current model may well work perfectly for you and other established investors but I am trying to establish a portfolio with the source funds earning next to nothing elsewhere. I have set a plan of investing £60k diversified across at least 30 loans on SS. It has taken over 4 months so far to place £40k on 24 loans and whilst the pre-funding of new loans has helped hugely, buying on the SM would be of great benefit to achieving my plan. I do not accept that 4 months to place 2/3rds of my budget is an acceptable rate of progress or that I'm being impatient. LW IMHO, 4 months to place 2/3rds of your budget across 24 loans is pretty fair going if you're not prepared to take advantage of the exceptional liquidity of SS's SM ( by investing more in new pre-funded loans initially and managing down your stakes later). ....investing more in new pre-funded loans initially and managing down your stakes laterSound advice IMO. Working from the premise that the risk associated with a loan in it's early months will be almost non-existent, I have previously invested heavily in new loans and then diversified to build a substantial portfolio. I also reduce my holding in every loan as it approaches it's end date and usually sell-out totally with one month to go.
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Post by ladywhitenap on Dec 5, 2015 16:17:18 GMT
OK, It looks like I should be considering myself as fortunate then! Thanks for some useful insights and strategies for me to consider whilst I retire under my stone for a bit.
LW
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Dec 5, 2015 17:55:24 GMT
I also reduce my holding in every loan as it approaches it's end date and usually sell-out totally with one month to go. Do you ever worry about the poor sucker who has taken on all the risk after you have taken most of the interest?
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ianj
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Post by ianj on Dec 5, 2015 18:59:52 GMT
......Do you ever worry about the poor sucker who has taken on all the risk after you have taken most of the interest? I have never laboured under the delusion that anyone has responsibility for my actions other than myself! You will, of course, have noted that I have not recommended my investment strategy as the the only course of action open to investors. Selling-down / selling-out before the end-date also reduces the potential effort required to reinvest returned capital: best this be done at the most opportune moment. To act otherwise would be to defy logic in my opinion, but it's only my opinion. You, and anyone else, are free to think otherwise. Just remember, we were both 'innocents' at some point in our investing 'careers'. I could have kept shtum, but I consider that everyone using this forum should be able to consider all points of view, and make up their own minds.....just as I did many moons ago.....with much appreciated, but selected, assistance from fellow forum members opinions.
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Post by Financial Thing on Dec 5, 2015 20:09:18 GMT
I also reduce my holding in every loan as it approaches it's end date and usually sell-out totally with one month to go. Do you ever worry about the poor sucker who has taken on all the risk after you have taken most of the interest? Nothing wrong with that strategy at all, makes perfect sense. I'd feel much worse about dumping SM tax liabilities to someone on FS than selling out of a loan prior to its completion date on SS.
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james
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Post by james on Dec 6, 2015 8:37:30 GMT
Having spent more time that I perhaps should watching the page refresh for SM investment opportunities to appear only to realise my arthritic fingers are just not fast enough to grab more that a tiny portion of one loan, I wonder about the feasibility of a pre-fund EOI for the SM. Why not just post an offer to buy at the price you are willing to pay and let any prospective sellers choose to buy from you and get their money instantly if they want to? The answer today is easy: you can't do that here. But you can at say Ablrate and it's quite convenient when that's what you want to do. It has the added advantage that you're advertising to a prospective seller that you're wanting to buy, helping to improve their confidence that there will be a buyer. The Ablrate system is low bid is used first, then original bid submission time if two bids are at the same rate.
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Post by highlandtiger on Dec 6, 2015 9:27:40 GMT
Having spent more time that I perhaps should watching the page refresh for SM investment opportunities to appear only to realise my arthritic fingers are just not fast enough to grab more that a tiny portion of one loan, I wonder about the feasibility of a pre-fund EOI for the SM. Why not just post an offer to buy at the price you are willing to pay and let any prospective sellers choose to buy from you and get their money instantly if they want to? The answer today is easy: you can't do that here. But you can at say Ablrate and it's quite convenient when that's what you want to do. It has the added advantage that you're advertising to a prospective seller that you're wanting to buy, helping to improve their confidence that there will be a buyer. The Ablrate system is low bid is used first, then original bid submission time if two bids are at the same rate. Why on earth would I want to sell my loan holdings at a reduced premium, when I can sell immediately at the moment at no loss to myself and at no extra cost to the buyer. It makes little sense doing this just to pander to the whinges of people who seem to think they have a god given right to invest what they want, when they want. If people don't like it, they are well within their rights to take their money elsewhere and leave SS to the rest of us who are perfectly happy with the status quo
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 6, 2015 11:03:14 GMT
Having spent more time that I perhaps should watching the page refresh for SM investment opportunities to appear only to realise my arthritic fingers are just not fast enough to grab more that a tiny portion of one loan, I wonder about the feasibility of a pre-fund EOI for the SM. Why not just post an offer to buy at the price you are willing to pay and let any prospective sellers choose to buy from you and get their money instantly if they want to? The answer today is easy: you can't do that here. But you can at say Ablrate and it's quite convenient when that's what you want to do. It has the added advantage that you're advertising to a prospective seller that you're wanting to buy, helping to improve their confidence that there will be a buyer. The Ablrate system is low bid is used first, then original bid submission time if two bids are at the same rate. James have you been following the discussions on the ABL forum about their SM. It is very complicated, there are errors and cannot be called liquid. There are many offers and bids - yes. How many of them are selling? Edit: ABL's example is definitely not what I want to see here.
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james
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Post by james on Jan 2, 2016 2:53:18 GMT
Why not just post an offer to buy at the price you are willing to pay and let any prospective sellers choose to buy from you and get their money instantly if they want to? The answer today is easy: you can't do that here. But you can at say Ablrate and it's quite convenient when that's what you want to do. It has the added advantage that you're advertising to a prospective seller that you're wanting to buy, helping to improve their confidence that there will be a buyer. The Ablrate system is low bid is used first, then original bid submission time if two bids are at the same rate. Why on earth would I want to sell my loan holdings at a reduced premium, when I can sell immediately at the moment at no loss to myself and at no extra cost to the buyer. It makes little sense doing this just to pander to the whinges of people who seem to think they have a god given right to invest what they want, when they want. If people don't like it, they are well within their rights to take their money elsewhere and leave SS to the rest of us who are perfectly happy with the status quo You cannot sell at a premium here at present so the concept of selling here at a reduced premium is moot. However, the problem that ladywhitenap was complaining of was lack of supply and a proposal to have a queue system to allocate from the limited supply. My post referred to the possibility of offering a price above par to encourage more people to choose to sell, hence potentially reducing the supply-demand imbalance. James have you been following the discussions on the ABL forum about their SM. It is very complicated, there are errors and cannot be called liquid. There are many offers and bids - yes. How many of them are selling? Yes, I've been following the discussion. You're in general wrong in suggesting that it cannot be called liquid, since I've sold a couple of tens of thousand Pounds of loans there. Bids there tend not to be very successful though I have sold once or twice to a realistic bid. Usually the bids are around or below par and that's not normally enough to find a willing seller. I've also made some successful bids myself, encouraging sellers with a realistic bid price. There is some of the same effect that can be seen here in new loans, with larger loans at lower interest rates or with less desirable properties taking longer to move. I've had success at times in selling more rapidly just by offering a modest discount in the region of 0.1 below par. Edit: ABL's example is definitely not what I want to see here. I think it needs some refining to handle larger loan volumes but that it has the desirable properties needed to encourage liquidity at a range of interest rates: the key feature in that being the ability to buy or sell at premiums and discounts so you can adjust prices to match interest rate moves and supply and demand shifts. So long as there is a massive over-supply of buyers the sellers at par-only markets who are willing to sell even knowing that they are getting less than they could will be happy enough, with the buyers complaining about lack of supply.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Jan 2, 2016 8:55:23 GMT
IMO p2p is quite risky enough without adding the extra risk that I might inadvertently buy a loan at a loss which I can easily do on Abl and FS. These complicated schemes are OK for the erudite like James but I imagine that a lot of SS investors are "little old ladies" who are desperate to get a reasonable return on their savings. Please, SS, keep it simple!
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Jan 2, 2016 9:06:39 GMT
You can't "buy at a loss" .. You can overpay, but there is no loss unless you sell for less than you bought for.
I'm with James on this .. It ain't a market unless there is a price varying mechanism.
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Post by highlandtiger on Jan 2, 2016 10:10:15 GMT
This whole discussion is really redundant anyway. There is no need to pre-fund the SM, or create a market where you can offer to buy or sell at a premium or discount.
As soon as a big loan appears, the SM goes into overdrive, everyone gets what they want, and we all go home happy.
The only people getting their knickers in a twist over this are those people with very little patience, who can't wait a week or so for new loans to pop up.
yes, you can bring up the old chestnut, "but I have money I want to invest, but I can't and it is not getting me the interest I want", well sorry, but that's your problem, not SS's. They are not the only investment opportunity in the world, but then I suppose, looking elsewhere to put your money to work, is too much effort.
The SS business model, works perfectly in every respect. Provided there are businesses in desperate need for short term financing, very few defaults, and no attempted company frauds, then we can sit back and enjoy earning cash for very little effort for years to come. Tinkering with something that works fine, just because people are impatient or lazy is daft.
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