ben
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Post by ben on Dec 20, 2015 18:40:47 GMT
True I am not that bothered on missing out on 49b I think I have done enough shopping on SS for one weekend
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 20, 2015 19:03:12 GMT
Only we can't pre-fund it until the loan appears on the Pipeline Loans page. And I do hope it appears there more than just a few hours before it goes live. If it doesn't, savingstream are going to upset quite a few people. I don't think they've ever promised that all new loans will appear on the pipeline page - and there is the default pre-fund option. If somebody chooses not to set that, then they can't really complain if they don't pre-fund a specific new loan, imho. I was under the impression that the default pre-fund was used to set a preliminary pre-fund amount when a loan appeared on the pipeline list, and that we could change the amount for a specific loan, if we wished, once we saw the particulars. We can't have a reasonable opportunity to do that if a loan appears on the list and there's very little time before it goes live. And ISTM that it would be totally unreasonable to apply our pre-fund setting for pipeline loans to a loan that bypassed the pipeline completely. Isn't the whole idea of showing pipeline loans and allowing us to specify pre-funding so that we can study the documentation and decide how much we want to invest in each loan? Having created that -- IMHO very sensible-- procedure, I'd hate to think that SS would bypass it by releasing a loan for investment without warning and without giving their investors a reasonable amount of time to consider it.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 20, 2015 19:05:38 GMT
I do not use the default on either as I do not want the Hull one when it is released You can still have a default pre-fund set and manually set Hull to £0 after that, if you were worried about missing out on 49b. Warning - if you change your default pre-fund make a list of your preferred individual pre-funds first as you will have to reset them afterwards. Typo edited thanks GSV3MIaC
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 20, 2015 19:18:11 GMT
ITYM 'reset' rather than 'rest'. 8>.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 20, 2015 19:23:53 GMT
Wouldn't it have to be secured by a second charge? Even if SS hold all the same paperwork and simply add the extra amount to their existing charge, I don't think they can give the new lenders equal priority with the initial lenders without breaking the conditions agreed with the initial lenders when they invested. Having said that, though, I expect they could if they had the permission of the existing first charge lenders. I seem to remember new loans coming in with equal charge to previous loans somewhere. I cannot remember which platform (possibly FS but could be mistaken) and the circumstances of that loan. Anyone recalls anything similar? I will try to look it up. FS have done this on numerous occasions -- but they've always said at the very beginning of the first loan what the total amount subject to the first charge would be. People investing in the first loan would know exactly where they stood before they made their commitment. An example of the wording FS use is... If you've signed up to FS, you can see the info on their website. The very first loan against that security was #7262461757. Another example started with loan #2087174682... There are other cases as well. On more than one occasion, the borrower decided that they wished to borrow more than the amount specified at the beginning. In those cases, the additional borrowing was set up as a second charge behind the first series of tranches.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 20, 2015 19:35:48 GMT
I don't think they've ever promised that all new loans will appear on the pipeline page - and there is the default pre-fund option. If somebody chooses not to set that, then they can't really complain if they don't pre-fund a specific new loan, imho. I was under the impression that the default pre-fund was used to set a preliminary pre-fund amount when a loan appeared on the pipeline list, and that we could change the amount for a specific loan, if we wished, once we saw the particulars. We can't have a reasonable opportunity to do that if a loan appears on the list and there's very little time before it goes live. And ISTM that it would be totally unreasonable to apply our pre-fund setting for pipeline loans to a loan that bypassed the pipeline completely. Isn't the whole idea of showing pipeline loans and allowing us to specify pre-funding so that we can study the documentation and decide how much we want to invest in each loan? Having created that -- IMHO very sensible-- procedure, I'd hate to think that SS would bypass it by releasing a loan for investment without warning and without giving their investors a reasonable amount of time to consider it. The pipeline's been there since I started on SS (not THAT long ago, tbf), but I'm sure there's been some launched loans which didn't make it. Certainly, prior to pre-funding, it seemed to be a bit of a static and forgotten part of the site. As far as "totally unreasonable" goes, ISTM that they're damned if they do, damned if they don't on this one. If there's a loan that comes through in a rush, but can be regarded as being up to usual quality - which really means an existing borrower - then would you rather SS passed on it completely or put it live, taking the pre-fund default, and bypassing the pipeline? Let's face it, if you end up with £125 you don't want in a £150k loan, you're not going to have a lot of problems shifting it... Not this side of hell freezing over, anyway.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 20, 2015 19:52:39 GMT
As far as "totally unreasonable" goes, ISTM that they're damned if they do, damned if they don't on this one. If there's a loan that comes through in a rush, but can be regarded as being up to usual quality - which really means an existing borrower - then would you rather SS passed on it completely or put it live, taking the pre-fund default, and bypassing the pipeline? Let's face it, if you end up with £125 you don't want in a £150k loan, you're not going to have a lot of problems shifting it... Not this side of hell freezing over, anyway. With a small loan and the current SM liquidity, I accept that there'd be no problem bypassing the pipeline and using people's pre-funding defaults. Larger loans, however could be a different matter. And nobody -- savingstream included -- ever has explained why there's often a rush to make a loan live by shortening investors' review time when the money isn't really needed until drawdown, and most loans do not draw down immediately after being fully funded. What's the b****y hurry?
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 20, 2015 21:58:26 GMT
I seem to remember new loans coming in with equal charge to previous loans somewhere. I cannot remember which platform (possibly FS but could be mistaken) and the circumstances of that loan. Anyone recalls anything similar? I will try to look it up. FS have done this on numerous occasions -- but they've always said at the very beginning of the first loan what the total amount subject to the first charge would be. People investing in the first loan would know exactly where they stood before they made their commitment. An example of the wording FS use is... If you've signed up to FS, you can see the info on their website. The very first loan against that security was #7262461757. Another example started with loan #2087174682... There are other cases as well. On more than one occasion, the borrower decided that they wished to borrow more than the amount specified at the beginning. In those cases, the additional borrowing was set up as a second charge behind the first series of tranches. Thanks mikes, I thought I have seen something somewhere. It is a different situation, tranches that have been pre-announced - so different from this case.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 20, 2015 22:02:26 GMT
Thinking . . .
Bypassing the pipeline (and therefore limits) on the occasional loan might give big hitters a way to diversify. If it is the occasional loan, I do not think that it would be a problem for small lenders.
I think we need to give SS a bit more space to manoeuvre.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 21, 2015 3:42:49 GMT
Bypassing the pipeline (and therefore limits) on the occasional loan might give big hitters a way to diversify. All it really takes is for SS to have enough deal flow. Between PBL073 still having nearly £1M available and investors selling parts so they can pay for their pre-funding of that loan, there are more than a dozen loans with four-figure sums available right now -- and one with a five-figure sum on offer! It's been that way for a few hours at least, and presents a golden opportunity to anyone who wants to diversify.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Dec 21, 2015 12:22:38 GMT
Bypassing the pipeline (and therefore limits) on the occasional loan might give big hitters a way to diversify. All it really takes is for SS to have enough deal flow. Between PBL073 still having nearly £1M available and investors selling parts so they can pay for their pre-funding of that loan, there are more than a dozen loans with four-figure sums available right now -- and one with a five-figure sum on offer! It's been that way for a few hours at least, and presents a golden opportunity to anyone who wants to diversify. Yes but how long to run? Whenever I look there are only ever (large-ish) loans with only a few days left.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 21, 2015 12:29:20 GMT
Still waiting for SS to clarify what they mean by 'bottom up' allocation on over-funded loans .. I can envisage two scenarios ..
Suppose for a £300 loan we have A, B, and C who bid £100, £200, and £300 respectively ..
scenario 1) .. allocate everybody the minimum bid (£100) .. everyone gets £100, nothing left.
scenario 2) allocate A his £100. £200 left
allocate B his(or her) £200 .. nothing left
C gets nowt.
so which one will actually apply? One would hope it'd be 1, else 'big hitters' are getting DIS-advantaged, which is not really desirable.
We won't get into what to do if the bids were the same but the loan total was only £200. 8>.
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Dec 21, 2015 12:39:10 GMT
Still waiting for SS to clarify what they mean by 'bottom up' allocation on over-funded loans .. I can envisage two scenarios .. Suppose for a £300 loan we have A, B, and C who bid £100, £200, and £300 respectively .. scenario 1) .. allocate everybody the minimum bid (£100) .. everyone gets £100, nothing left. scenario 2) allocate A his £100. £200 left allocate B his(or her) £200 .. nothing left C gets nowt. so which one will actually apply? One would hope it'd be 1, else 'big hitters' are getting DIS-advantaged, which is not really desirable. We won't get into what to do if the bids were the same but the loan total was only £200. 8>. Surely it can only refer to your scenario 1, this being savingstream's original proposition when first setting up pre-funding (this model subsequently was ditched before it went live to placate the "big-hitters"). See p2pindependentforum.com/post/58105/thread
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treeman
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Post by treeman on Dec 22, 2015 12:30:54 GMT
How low does PBL073 have to go before PBL074 gets the green light?
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Post by goldservice on Dec 23, 2015 16:05:25 GMT
How low does PBL073 have to go before PBL074 gets the green light? Pebble 74 needs only £322k. Not sure that it could change the flow of funds into Pebble 73 much.
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