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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 29, 2015 21:07:52 GMT
Actually autobuy woke up a bit today .. whether because FC unjammed it, or just because there were some PM auctions to bid on, we can't tell. However the rule for discounts is simple - if you want to sell to autobid, just price at par. If you want to sell to manual bidders (and autobid too, assuming you are not asking a premium) price at 'best available', which may be a discount. Anything which is a discount, but doesn't get you to 'best available rate' is just a waste of (potential) profit - autobuy doesn't care, and manual buyers still won't buy except by accident/stupidity.
(Slight simplification .. just possibly a small discount might rope in some 'extra' autobiddies, who have set a higher rate threshold, but the effect is probably negligible).
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Dec 29, 2015 21:44:04 GMT
Still no sign of any autobid sales, but loan parts at a premium are flying out of the door. Just become my highest selling day, with a few hours to spare. EDIT On reflection I have reduced my premium on most loan parts over the last few days. Probably not fair to make a comparison. I beg to differ on Autobid; I think it's been quite active during the day today. I've sold quite a lot of property parts at par and they all look like Autobid rather than manual buyers. I think that I must have been unlucky when I posted, but since then there has been a steady trickle out of par property loans. Still a disappointing day, but certainly no longer zero. I beg to differ on Autobid; I think it's been quite active during the day today. I've sold quite a lot of property parts at par and they all look like Autobid rather than manual buyers. Are you still talking about the usual Formidable Catastrophe or a new platform called Fantastic Claims? I am not selling on the SM and I have parts ranging down to -0.5% discount. All of the loans I was referring to were SME loans, each at a premium of between 0.3% and 2.0%. I haven't checked each of them, but I would imagine that I was the best buyer rate on each of them at the time. (I put everything up for sale at rates I am happy to sell, but not bothered if I don't.) EDIT £186k traded on the SM since 08:24 this morning! I just did on some, so go ahead. The way I see it is that FC is heading toward -20%. This was their plan from the start. They offer loans at reduced rates (for borrowers) and the only way to attract investors is by having bigger (fatter) rates generated by SM. What is the best way to do this? Throttle the Autobid. I am not a celebrity but I think I have to say "I'm out of here". I don't understand. What is '-20%'? You think that they are going to make more money from SM fees than primary issuance? It is possible, but it seems unlikely. The Autobid crowd and WL players don't really sell on the SM much.
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acky
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Post by acky on Dec 30, 2015 6:43:23 GMT
Autobodge was much more active last night than the two previous nights. I sold 17 parts at par compared to 4 and 3. It couldn't bid on the PM because it had already funded all PM loans to 50% yesterday and they are within the 48 hour rule. So this evidence does not help the theory of a direct link between PM and SM spend. Repayments due today have not been collected (except property interest) and those due yesterday (29th) are still outstanding, but those due 28th have been collected - I reckon that means (including today's property interest) about £492k should have come into the Fulsome Coffers. With total SM purchases of £47k from 22:48 to 06:07, I reckon Autobulge's reserves are still growing. We should see more activity during the day today.
As for what determines how much Autobid spends on SM, I am increasingly of the view that Fiddling Carousel simply stick a number into the program, which may or may not bear some reference to the cash which is available.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 30, 2015 9:04:13 GMT
Yes, overnight sales about ten times the previous. Fiddling Cheats are clearly managing/interfering with the automated secondary market in a clandestine manner for undeclared purposes. One for the regulator, imo.
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acky
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Post by acky on Dec 30, 2015 11:04:30 GMT
Yes, overnight sales about ten times the previous. Fiddling Cheats are clearly managing/interfering with the automated secondary market in a clandestine manner for undeclared purposes. One for the regulator, imo. I don't often defend the Fine Chaps, but I think this is a very harsh analysis. Fiscally Competent are managing a successful business and, as a result, we are managing to make some money too. They are managing Autobodgers cash and making decisions as to how to much to invest on the PM and how much on the SM; I don't see that as managing, even less, interfering with, the SM per se. They are certainly managing the PM - that's their job. We may be getting frustrated because we don't understand the rules and therefore can't quite figure out the best way to play them to our advantage. But that's part of the game as far as I'm concerned.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Dec 30, 2015 11:12:31 GMT
Yes, overnight sales about ten times the previous. Fiddling Cheats are clearly managing/interfering with the automated secondary market in a clandestine manner for undeclared purposes. One for the regulator, imo. I don't often defend the Fine Chaps, but I think this is a very harsh analysis. Fiscally Competent are managing a successful business and, as a result, we are managing to make some money too. They are managing Autobodgers cash and making decisions as to how to much to invest on the PM and how much on the SM; I don't see that as managing, even less, interfering with, the SM per se. They are certainly managing the PM - that's their job. We may be getting frustrated because we don't understand the rules and therefore can't quite figure out the best way to play them to our advantage. But that's part of the game as far as I'm concerned.
A little bit of transparency here would go a very long way. From a lender's perspective, the secondary market is integral to the FC platform / product. If FC do anything other than manage the provision of new offerings on the PM then the integrity of the platform is undermined. What I find interesting is that FC clearly know of lender concerns about this and yet have done nothing to address the issue.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 30, 2015 12:08:22 GMT
Yes, overnight sales about ten times the previous. Fiddling Cheats are clearly managing/interfering with the automated secondary market in a clandestine manner for undeclared purposes. One for the regulator, imo. I don't often defend the Fine Chaps, but I think this is a very harsh analysis. Fiscally Competent are managing a successful business and, as a result, we are managing to make some money too. They are managing Autobodgers cash and making decisions as to how to much to invest on the PM and how much on the SM; I don't see that as managing, even less, interfering with, the SM per se. They are certainly managing the PM - that's their job. We may be getting frustrated because we don't understand the rules and therefore can't quite figure out the best way to play them to our advantage. But that's part of the game as far as I'm concerned.
You have a point in that what they do may be reasonable. The main problem, as registerme says is the lack of transparency - and what I say is questionable from the regulatory viewpoint is doing it 'in a clandestine manner for undeclared purposes'. If they set up a secondary market, and allow no other way of trading, then it should be defined and open, and the Autobidders' purchasing should not be secretly manipulated to suit the operator's purpose (whatever that may be). This is a trading process and should be open and transparent. In any case, shutting down Autobid on the SM because you have nothing on the PM and want to hold the cash until there is something on the PM is improper fiddling in the market for an operator IMO - even if they do declare it.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Dec 30, 2015 14:09:31 GMT
I don't often defend the Fine Chaps, but I think this is a very harsh analysis. Fiscally Competent are managing a successful business and, as a result, we are managing to make some money too. They are managing Autobodgers cash and making decisions as to how to much to invest on the PM and how much on the SM; I don't see that as managing, even less, interfering with, the SM per se. They are certainly managing the PM - that's their job. We may be getting frustrated because we don't understand the rules and therefore can't quite figure out the best way to play them to our advantage. But that's part of the game as far as I'm concerned.
In any case, shutting down Autobid on the SM because you have nothing on the PM and want to hold the cash until there is something on the PM is improper fiddling in the market for an operator IMO - even if they do declare it. I don't agree. I think that transparency is normally best, and is certainly my preference, but beyond that I think that they should be reasonably free to use auto bid how they choose. The only people they should consider are the investors whose autobid money they are investing. Having said that, autobid is flying. I have sold 1 part fewer than I did on the 23rd, which was my previous best day. Manual purchasing is a bit disappointing in comparison.
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Dec 30, 2015 14:50:47 GMT
In any case, shutting down Autobid on the SM because you have nothing on the PM and want to hold the cash until there is something on the PM is improper fiddling in the market for an operator IMO - even if they do declare it. I don't agree. I think that transparency is normally best, and is certainly my preference, but beyond that I think that they should be reasonably free to use auto bid how they choose. The only people they should consider are the investors whose autobid money they are investing. I believe autobid investors should reasonably expect their funds to be speedily invested at the diversity % they have chosen. If I used autobid I would not be happy for my cash to be left sitting idle in reserve waiting for a trickle of new loans when plenty of loan parts are available for immediate investment. We seem to be talking about an accumulation of a few days income and capital repayments I suppose. However, funds placed for investment should be fully invested as soon as possible. Further, where other investors are looking to realise funds fot whatever purpose, it does not seem reasonable to place an artificial obstruction. I'm sure other platforms attempt to facilitate withdrawals as smoothly as possible subject to new demand.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 30, 2015 16:07:36 GMT
In any case, shutting down Autobid on the SM because you have nothing on the PM and want to hold the cash until there is something on the PM is improper fiddling in the market for an operator IMO - even if they do declare it. I don't agree. I think that transparency is normally best, and is certainly my preference, but beyond that I think that they should be reasonably free to use auto bid how they choose. The only people they should consider are the investors whose autobid money they are investing.Having said that, autobid is flying. I have sold 1 part fewer than I did on the 23rd, which was my previous best day. Manual purchasing is a bit disappointing in comparison. We seem to agree on the main point of transparency. But Autobid is not there just for the buyers and is not optimised for the buyer - it chooses an acceptable part from the SM or PM rather than the best deal for the buyer. That is in part because its function is also to provide liquidity for sellers. We could possibly agree on Autobid being optimised to provide a fair balance between buyers and sellers. But FC also are probably taking account of the needs of Borrowers' loan requests and also their own need to grow the loan book. Without transparency and accountability we have no idea in whose interests they manipulate Autobid. I do not insist on a level playing field, but would prefer not to play on it blindfolded.
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acky
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Post by acky on Dec 31, 2015 6:44:13 GMT
Autobodge pattern overnight was similar to the previous night - unable to spend on the PM due to the 2-day rule, but feasted on the SM. Total SM sales per movement on the Stats page was £95k - double the previous night. This is matched by my overnight property sales at par which were almost double and 10 times the level experienced on the dark nights over Xmas. A lot of money came in overnight as repayments due on 29th were settled (£314k). I don't know whether 31st due repayments were made as I don't have any (relatively few loans repay on 31st, only £54k SME on the loanbook, plus £50k property interest).
Yesterday as a whole my property sales at par were a record in terms of % of what I had on the market, even though I had allowed the more popular loans to lapse for fear of selling too much (there being nothing worth reinvesting in at present). So clearly Flushed Coffers are finally releasing some of Autobinge's reserves of cash.
Only about 30% of my sales yesterday were made overnight as AB was very active on the SM during the day. I had imagined Autobodge would spend overnight based on what repayments came in, and activity during the day would be based on new money coming in. This seems less likely to me now. Its spend on the SM clearly is not an automatic function of what it spends on the PM, but increasingly is just looking like a figure which FC stick into the program to manage AB's cash as they see fit.
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nick
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Post by nick on Dec 31, 2015 9:54:39 GMT
I don't agree. I think that transparency is normally best, and is certainly my preference, but beyond that I think that they should be reasonably free to use auto bid how they choose. The only people they should consider are the investors whose autobid money they are investing.Having said that, autobid is flying. I have sold 1 part fewer than I did on the 23rd, which was my previous best day. Manual purchasing is a bit disappointing in comparison. We seem to agree on the main point of transparency. But Autobid is not there just for the buyers and is not optimised for the buyer - it chooses an acceptable part from the SM or PM rather than the best deal for the buyer. That is in part because its function is also to provide liquidity for sellers. We could possibly agree on Autobid being optimised to provide a fair balance between buyers and sellers. But FC also are probably taking account of the needs of Borrowers' loan requests and also their own need to grow the loan book. Without transparency and accountability we have no idea in whose interests they manipulate Autobid. I do not insist on a level playing field, but would prefer not to play on it blindfolded. As a trader/active investor, asking for more transparency is like a turkey voting for Christmas.........
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acky
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Post by acky on Dec 31, 2015 10:02:47 GMT
I agree with nick (...... has that been said before?). The easier this game were to become, the more would want to play and the lower the returns for us.
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blender
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Post by blender on Dec 31, 2015 10:03:44 GMT
Point taken, nick, but I think it is already 'game over'.
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metoo
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Post by metoo on Dec 31, 2015 14:50:02 GMT
I do not insist on a level playing field, but would prefer not to play on it blindfolded. As a trader/active investor, asking for more transparency is like a turkey voting for Christmas......... ... be careful what you wish for ...
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