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Post by sunspot on Mar 1, 2016 13:14:48 GMT
I have previously criticised the minimum size of loan parts available (most people disagreed) and also suggested that it should be possible to aggregate loan parts (some approval). Well, it should be possible to partially solve both these problems with little difficulty.
1) Automatically merge all loan parts bought on a single day. There are no issues with regard to interest calculations, indeed, the best way to implement this would be simply to add all subsequent acquisitions to the first.
2) Automatically merge all loan parts that have not yet earned any displayable interest. In other words, all the shrapnel bought in a single loan would aggregate automatically, until it has earned £0.01 interest. This rule says nothing about the size of loan parts, only about the interest earned so far, therefore, if implemented on its own, it would also solve issue 1) with the proviso that small loan parts might be aggregated over several days (rather than one).
In both cases, I would append an explanatory note detailing the relevant history.
Kindly vote away!
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cooling_dude
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Post by cooling_dude on Mar 1, 2016 13:21:12 GMT
I have previously criticised the minimum size of loan parts available (most people disagreed) and also suggested that it should be possible to aggregate loan parts (some approval). Well, it should be possible to partially solve both these problems with little difficulty. 1) Automatically merge all loan parts bought on a single day. There are no issues with regard to interest calculations, indeed, the best way to implement this would be simply to add all subsequent acquisitions to the first. 2) Automatically merge all loan parts that have not yet earned any displayable interest. In other words, all the shrapnel bought in a single loan would aggregate automatically, until it has earned £0.01 interest. This rule says nothing about the size of loan parts, only about the interest earned so far, therefore, if implemented on its own, it would also solve issue 1) with the proviso that small loan parts might be aggregated over several days (rather than one). In both cases, I would append an explanatory note detailing the relevant history. Kindly vote away! I have voted "never". The problem I see is that if people can start selling loan parts in one big lump, then they will then be hoovered up immediately. At least, ATM we have a slight chance as and when people sell their investment in the current "parts".
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 1, 2016 13:22:04 GMT
2) Automatically merge all loan parts that have not yet earned any displayable interest. In other words, all the shrapnel bought in a single loan would aggregate automatically, until it has earned £0.01 interest. This rule says nothing about the size of loan parts, only about the interest earned so far, therefore, if implemented on its own, it would also solve issue 1) with the proviso that small loan parts might be aggregated over several days (rather than one). Interest is calculated, I am presuming, to umpty-seven decimal places, then totalled before being paid to two decimal places. So whether you have £10k in 100,000 10p parts or 1 £10k part makes no difference to the interest paid. savingstream - can you confirm? If that IS so, then the only benefit in rolling-up parts is a little extra added ease when it comes to selling. I'll sometimes sell big parts in bits anyway - there's nothing more frustrating than having the sale of a £1,000 part held up because you're waiting to sell the last 23p. It's only a minor annoyance when the SM is liquid, but it could be a real PITA if the SM slows down. If I find myself in that situation, I'll just buy back the pennies and re-list them.
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jonno
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Post by jonno on Mar 1, 2016 13:25:47 GMT
I'll tell you what sunspot............God loves a trier. Full marks for determination 
P.S. voted "Never"
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Post by sunspot on Mar 1, 2016 13:32:44 GMT
Which might mean people are more inclined to buy!
One of the big annoyances for me is the rigmarole when selling multiple parts. So there is simply no way I'll ever buy shrapnel, not under the current system, though I might if it was aggregated.
I should just add that creating a preferences page so that users have the choice should be straightforward too.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 1, 2016 13:40:35 GMT
Which might mean people are more inclined to buy! If I list a hundred 35p parts, there's £35 on the SM. If you buy £35, it comes to you as one £35 part. It doesn't make a difference if I sold 100 35p parts, or 100 people sold a 35p part each. Fine. So don't buy shrapnel. <shrug> But if I'm happy buying shrapnel, why shouldn't I? I'm currently a bit shy of my target on one loan. If a chunk comes up, I'm buying 58p of it to get a round number. Petty? Perhaps. But that's my prerogative. If that leaves you £4,999.42 on the market, then it leaves you £4,999.42. Decide whether you want to buy £4,000, £4,500 or whatever round number you want. Fill yer boots. Sorry, but there isn't £5,000 for sale, so you can't buy £5,000. If there was only a nice round tenner listed, and it just leaves you £9.42, then decide if you want that or not. If you don't, then you're in the same position as if I'd bought the whole tenner.
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Mar 1, 2016 13:58:34 GMT
I'd like an option to do it for my parts (and to heck with the when I bought them field). An option .. not a force-fit. This is the same as selling them all to myself (which is usually not possible).
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Post by sunspot on Mar 1, 2016 13:58:45 GMT
adrianc If I'm under by a fraction, then depending on what parts I already have, I buy extra and sell off the excess. For instance, if I'm £10 under, I might buy £100 and sell £90. This results in tidier loans with fewer parts, though it does depend on how your existing holdings break down - sometimes there's no point buying extra. As for the pennies, they don't exist in my world, and when I accidentally find myself with some, I sell. Incidentally, when I sell multiple parts, I queue them all up in different tabs and hit OK, OK, OK, so that they hit the market as simultaneously as possible. @gsv3miac I'd like that too. But speaking as a coder, I'd say it's more difficult. It also add to the complexity presented to the user (rather than reducing the complexity to user, as my suggestion attempts to do).
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Post by highlandtiger on Mar 1, 2016 14:04:14 GMT
Another poll trying to get something fixed that doesn't need fixing.....ho hum.
One day hints may be heeded.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Mar 1, 2016 14:13:16 GMT
I voted Never, not because I am particularly opposed, but it is a relatively minor problem not worth the hassle and risk of a system change
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ianj
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Post by ianj on Mar 1, 2016 14:41:15 GMT
I'm suffering from voter's fatigue and really can't be bothered. How about an option "I couldn't give a t***" I will say, however, that my attitude to loan part purchase size differs between platforms. Yesterday the AC auto-invest mechanism purchased £0.0000000000000000002700000000000000300000 in one loan. Some investors object to shrapnelisation, but it's of no consequence to me as all parts are rolled into one. On SS I aim for a minimum part size of £100, and I will occasionally sell any parts under that to keep my spreadsheet 'tidy'. So, the manner SS system manages account holdings gives me something to do every now and then. Let's consider that as a positive. How sad is that?  |
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Mar 1, 2016 15:48:38 GMT
For instance, if I'm £10 under, I might buy £100 and sell £90. But if there was only £10 on the SM... You'd ignore it? Great. Feel free to do so. But to say "So I don't want SS to allow anybody to buy just £10-worth" is, frankly, arrogant in the extreme. (If you think £10 acceptable, then substitute £1, 50p, 10p, 1p as preferred...)
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Mar 1, 2016 16:04:55 GMT
Interest is calculated, I am presuming, to umpty-seven decimal places, then totalled before being paid to two decimal places. So whether you have £10k in 100,000 10p parts or 1 £10k part makes no difference to the interest paid. savingstream - can you confirm? AIUI, that is not the case. Each part has a separate interest calculation. A £10k part will earn £3.28767 of interest each day, so the accrued interest will increase by £3.29 on most days and £3.28 on the others. A 10p part will accrue 0.00328767p/day. It will sit showing no accrued interest for 152 days. On the 153rd day it will show 1p of accrued interest (the SS system seems to round these amounts), and then not accrue a second penny of interest until another 306 days have elapsed -- by which time the loan will be well overdue! Since SS pay interest monthly, Investor A (the holder of a single £10k part) will receive about £100 of interest every month. What Investor B (the holder of 100,000 10p parts) will receive depends on what SS do at the end of the month. If they reset the accrued amount to zero at the start of every month, the micro-shrapnel holder (Investor B) will never receive any interest. If they carry forward any fractional pennies of accrued interest then Investor B will receive no interest until the month when those parts reach 153 days old. In that month they will receive £1000 of interest -- and then nothing for the following ten months. If these parts are held for four months and then sold, Investor A will have earned £400 and Investor B would earn nothing. If these parts are held for six months and then sold, Investor A will have earned £600 and Investor B would earn either £1000 or nothing (depending on whether or not accrued fractional pennies are carried forward.) PS. In working out the above, I see there's an opportunity to double my SS earnings. I could buy a £15.30 part one day, and sell it the next day after it has accrued 1p of interest overnight. If I do that every day, at the end of a year I'll have earned £3.65 of interest on my £15.30 investment, for a return of 23.9% p.a.! I'd like an option to do it for my parts (and to heck with the when I bought them field). An option .. not a force-fit. This is the same as selling them all to myself (which is usually not possible). : Because of the calculations described above, I think SS would have to retain the purchase dates for parts bought at different times even if they didn't display the dates. But they could consolidate the parts for display purposes and keep track of them individually internally. Having said that, I'm not sure the benefit achieved would be worth the programming effort. But that's JMHO.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Mar 1, 2016 16:55:52 GMT
sunspot: Why are you so determined in changing anything that makes savingstream what it is, i.e. a very successful P2P platform?
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Post by sunspot on Mar 1, 2016 17:38:51 GMT
sunspot : Why are you so determined in changing anything that makes savingstream what it is, i.e. a very successful P2P platform? You know, I figured someone would ask that question, so here goes... If the existing minimum loan size was £10 and I'd suggested making it 1p would anyone have supported me? NO, they'd have thought I was nuts (although they might have settled on £1.00). Similarly, if loan parts were aggregated already, and I'd suggested ending that policy, everyone would have said NO WAY. All the suggestions I've made are intended to make SS better. You should perhaps bear in mind that as someone who's new to the platform, I can see the faults that other new users will see, and that old users are blind too. You might also consider that as a coder, I know what is and is not difficult - in other words, I don't suggest things that are hard and pointless, I suggest things that are easy and sensible. Incidentally, here's a quote from SS You will note that it does not say "on the primary market". In other words, their stated policy is that a minimum of £100 must be invested in any loan - it just so happens that their website does not enforce this policy. In other words, one could argue that the existence of shrapnel on the secondary market is actually down to a BUG, and that my suggestions in a previous thread were simply about choosing the best way to fix that bug!
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