oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 4, 2016 16:49:07 GMT
Furher to my comment above (back six posts), investors now will be very wary of investing extra in any loans where selling of part of their holding will be stopped (without warning or indication that it is happening) by the practice of making all loan part sales from QAA priority over investors. No one any more can rely on selling earlier holdings to invest in new offerings, especially at low rates which will be even more difficult to sell later. The secondary market for MLIA lenders is highly (and surreptitiously) manipulated now. Sell at a discount or be prepared to wait as long as AC sees fit. This has had minor impact on me so far because I am buying rather than selling, but I have two items in a selling Q which will not move while QAA rules (may apply*). * but AC choose to not let me know which loans on the secondary market are in this situation. Like they choose often not to let us know before drawdown how much of new loans will be in the MLIA so we can have some idea how much funding to make available. AC need to choose in a more investor friendly way, I think. edit. Chris has answered much of this in the QAA thread, but not the bit about us knowing in which loans QAA priority is causing delays for retaill/underwriter investors, so maybe we can avoid them for a while.
|
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Apr 5, 2016 11:55:28 GMT
Furher to my comment above (back six posts), investors now will be very wary of investing extra in any loans where selling of part of their holding will be stopped (without warning or indication that it is happening) by the practice of making all loan part sales from QAA priority over investors. No one any more can rely on selling earlier holdings to invest in new offerings, especially at low rates which will be even more difficult to sell later. The secondary market for MLIA lenders is highly (and surreptitiously) manipulated now. Sell at a discount or be prepared to wait as long as AC sees fit. Where are all the people who were complaining they were only being allocated a pittance from some of these loans? Why are they not eagerly topping up to the large allocation they claimed to want in the first place? If everyone was really as eager to invest as they'd claimed to be when they were complaining about getting only tiny allocations, there'd not be any unsold units of those loans from the QAA (or from anywhere else indeed!).
|
|
oldgrumpy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 5,087
Likes: 3,233
|
Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 5, 2016 12:29:31 GMT
I suspect end of financial year + money going to S&S ISAs for a while - maybe the mass of non forum-readers are waiting, hoping to put their wedges in Assetz IF ISAs in an optimistically near future. Can't see tax free cash ISAs paying 1.2% or less having much influence.
|
|
|
Post by crabbyoldgit on Apr 5, 2016 12:43:17 GMT
This is just life in a ballanced market there would be no issues, but there will never be a balanced market well at least for very long. AC had a lack of loans which they have addressed ,now they have a shortage of lenders funds which they have plans to address.Doubtless we will then swing back to a shortage of loans again.Ok rates are reducing and i think will in other platforms ,i have made my limmit 8 1/2 % in the mlia ,if i cant find enough for my given modest needs i will go back into the geia and gbba. I must admitt i am a little surprised that a few of the loans available on the am have not been taken up i would but i am at my single loan max in these.The advantage used by the qaa has only been required to the disadvantage to any great degree to mlia players for i guess 3 weeks and i would be suprised if in another month this is as much an issue but thats easy for me as i am still a buyer not a seller. My worry is that insufficient funds will be available to underwrite the retail offers and more and more loans will go to the institutions Ac finding it easyer and less hassle may not ever return that proportion to us.Just underwriting from a large qaa then moving the loan parts into the geia and gbba must on occasions seem a lot less hassle from ac point of view on the whole dealling with less active customer's unlike investers in the mlia.My plans for the moment is to batten down the hatches look for loans that make sence to me with good quality ltv of 65 % or less probably with terms of a year or less and wait for the recession which more and more people seem to be expecting in the next 18 months or so on the various forum sites.
|
|
|
Post by mrclondon on Apr 5, 2016 15:43:52 GMT
Just an observation without any actual numbers to back it up - the overhang of availability on SS, MT, and FS (primary market) seems to have reduced markedly in the last few days. FS has had a few of the 31/3 stamp duty rush aborted by borrowers who missed the deadlines, and they comment in their monthly newsletter published today "We expect things to slow down a little in April - now that the stamp duty deadline has passed and the end of the tax year will shortly be with us."
Two large supercar loans at MT and at least one large development loan on AC are virtually certain to redeem in the next 2 weeks. A significant proportion of the SS loanbook is currently in legals for re-finance over the next (say) 3 months.
Panic mongers regarding over supply in the p2p markets need to be a bit more patient, things can change remarkably quickly.
|
|
jonah
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,031
Likes: 1,113
|
Post by jonah on Apr 5, 2016 15:55:14 GMT
I agree with the 'don't panic' above. In my limited experience I've seen platforms have gluts before, but this combined feast is new to me. I had thought it might last until the fca pull their finger out re ISAs but if it's a month or two sooner, then no worries there either.
|
|
sqh
Member of DD Central
Before P2P, savers put a guinea in a piggy bank, now they smash the banks to become guinea pigs.
Posts: 1,428
Likes: 1,212
|
Post by sqh on Apr 5, 2016 16:11:57 GMT
If lenders dip into their flexible cash ISA's tomorrow, all the cupboards could be bare by the end of this week.
|
|
jonah
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,031
Likes: 1,113
|
Post by jonah on Apr 5, 2016 20:57:42 GMT
There have been over 50 loans with parts on offer, I.e. More than 1 page, everyday for a while now.
Currently, there are 45 loans with parts on offer.
Ok there hasn't been a loan for a day or two, but the feast definitely looks to be heading towards pudding and finishing more than towards another main course.
|
|
|
Post by stuartassetzcapital on Apr 5, 2016 22:00:16 GMT
Hi everyone. The large variety of loans available on the aftermarket is principally as a result of our plan to warehouse a large number of loans to release to new investors (or existing ones looking to widen their spread) arriving on the platform. It was always non-ideal to have new investors arrive and have a choice of only a few or even no loans. We have now fixed that for now and over time it should become always fixed. It was one of our aims to ensure new investors could be diversified as much as possible quickly and also to ensure that a desposit into say the GBBA was instantly and diversely invested. This has been achieved. We have seen the comments about other platforms seeing reduced liquidity yet we have seen the highest cash inflow of any week ever last week which is great to see.
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,330
Likes: 11,549
|
Post by ilmoro on Apr 10, 2016 16:56:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by stuartassetzcapital on Apr 10, 2016 17:28:46 GMT
Hi Marketing and IT are working on it - I've just asked for an update as I would like to see one too !
|
|
|
Post by Butch Cassidy on Apr 14, 2016 16:26:53 GMT
Hi everyone. The large variety of loans available on the aftermarket is principally as a result of our plan to warehouse a large number of loans to release to new investors (or existing ones looking to widen their spread) arriving on the platform. It was always non-ideal to have new investors arrive and have a choice of only a few or even no loans. We have now fixed that for now and over time it should become always fixed. It was one of our aims to ensure new investors could be diversified as much as possible quickly and also to ensure that a desposit into say the GBBA was instantly and diversely invested. This has been achieved. We have seen the comments about other platforms seeing reduced liquidity yet we have seen the highest cash inflow of any week ever last week which is great to see. Whilst some marketing success is clearly happening as the QAA has gone up by c. £2m in the last week the backlog of SM loans still persists, albeit down by c £1.5m, competitors such as FC, SS & MT have seen similar gluts completely disappear & whilst I can appreciate what stuartassetzcapital said that it is important to have a SM choice of loans available for new investors to buy into, I suspect a large chunk is BS cash being transferred to QAA cash & not translating much into actual investment in loans. I only have a couple of active sell positions presently but none has moved at all & most of my holds have now more on the SM than less - so any SM buying is patchy at best, I am lucky to have positions in older loans, pre QAA, that could be liquidated in short order should I require the funds but this may no longer be the case going forward. Hoping for ISA funds to swamp the SM is wishful thinking as the FCA are clearly not interested in expediting full permission applications to allow platforms to deliver what has been promised. The only answer, at least in the short term, is to attract funds that will actually invest either directly or indirectly into the available or future loans, pointing out that institutional investors are ready & willing to take up the platform excess supply is hardly any comfort to MLIA investors, whether buyers or sellers!
As has already been pointed out there is the risk that a larger, more powerful QAA actually works against direct MLIA loan investors by imposing financial exit penalties, as QAA has sale priority & suffocating liquidity with increased competition by enabling AC to u/w more sub optimal quality/rate loans that normal investors would not fund. The AC assertion that quality & rates are being maintained just doesn’t stand up to scrutiny IMO. Does the QAA actually buy from the SM in times of excess supply? Or just take fresh u/w loans?
Whilst platform growth is generally a good thing both for AC management & future shareholders, it must not be completely for the benefit of non-investing cash depositors or GBBA/GEIA investors at the expense of MLIA investors. Whilst I accept there are no plans to sideline or abolish the MLIA I would be interested to hear the rationale for choosing it when most current loans are single figures, any exit often requires 1%+ discount, any suspension/default/loss is suffered directly by the holder, over say GBBA (7% with PF, loan diversity, high liquidity & virtually no investor time required) – there is just no margin for error left to justify the choice.
|
|
trouble
Member of DD Central
Posts: 127
Likes: 97
|
Post by trouble on Apr 14, 2016 17:43:09 GMT
Why would any platform want zero availability on the market, as this is what will grow the lender book and please 'new' lenders. The more lenders the more activity, ultimately we as lenders would benefit from a near liquid market rather than a fully liquid market.
So, I've said it before and I'll say it again
AS LENDERS WE ARE INVESTING IN TERM LOANS, SO BE PREPARED TO BE IN FOR TERM (A BANK HAS TO BE), the fact you have a market to sell back into is a massive bonus whether it be instant or over a few weeks or months
|
|
|
Post by Butch Cassidy on Apr 14, 2016 17:55:25 GMT
Why would any platform want zero availability on the market, as this is what will grow the lender book and please 'new' lenders. The more lenders the more activity, ultimately we as lenders would benefit from a near liquid market rather than a fully liquid market. So, I've said it before and I'll say it again AS LENDERS WE ARE INVESTING IN TERM LOANS, SO BE PREPARED TO BE IN FOR TERM (A BANK HAS TO BE), the fact you have a market to sell back into is a massive bonus whether it be instant or over a few weeks or months That is not how AC SM operates; Although a specific loan isn't visible it doesn't mean it is not being traded; most of my targets are at least partly filled without ever troubling the SM
QAA holdings have priority in any sale, so stockpiling loans for visible availability means blocking MLIA sales (+ imposing a discount/loss to achieve any sales), deliberately swamping the SM with oversupply as a "signal to buyers" simply acknowledges that the operation of the market is too complex to explain or buyers are too stupid to understand or both. As a target based system the most efficient & fairest way to satisfy demand would be to allow those loan specific buying targets to be filled daily from both MLIA & any QAA supply exactly.
You may well argue that the SM is a privilege but that doesn't mean MLIA lenders should be the only ones penalised to use it, which is not only unfair but not what we agreed to when entering the loans (only been imposed since QAA existed).
|
|
happy
Member of DD Central
Posts: 397
Likes: 497
|
Post by happy on Apr 14, 2016 20:29:28 GMT
Maybe I am missing something here @butch cassidy I was under the impression the QAA invested amount has been steadily growing over recent weeks so if it is growing how is the QAA stopping MLIA investors selling loan units right now, if anything surely the QAA would have been buying loans units from the SM or somewhere else. As I understand it the only time the QAA will need to exercise it's market sell priority is when it needs to sell units to maintain liquidity, i.e people are selling out of the QAA. When I joined AC last year the SM was pretty much empty bar a few loans and this has only changed since the recdnt flood on new loans, I did not see the QAA stopping the SM back then as pretty anything worth buying got snapped up. So are you saying that the mere existence of the QAA ( and by implication I suppose the GBBA and GEIA as well) is creating an unfair market for MLIA lenders? Personally I do not agree with you if this is your view. I like being able to have a %age of my investment in all the above mentioned accounts for different reasons but as trouble says, when investing in the MLIA I accept that these loans are potentially for TERM. I only invest in terms that I am able to accept the full term, anything shorter is a bonus in my view I don't see this level of liquidity (or lack of) being here for ever, I just hope the FSA help lubricate the market somewhat with full authorisation for IFISAs
|
|