|
|
Post by highlandtiger on Mar 26, 2016 8:18:34 GMT
No doubt everyone is aware that PM are planning a secondary market, (hopefully sooner rather than later), I've been thinking that this could be very good for both PM and investors.
With PP, relying on high capital gains and low rental yields, their SM loses appeal as time goes on with properties rising in price and rental yields falling (as a percentage),making them look less attractive as an investment proposition. We've already seen the start of this as deep discounts are required in order to sell anything on their SM
But with PM, because it is the opposite scenario, (lower capital gains, but higher rental yields), the rental yields should hold up quite well as time moves on. I could see myself putting more money on PM than PP in certain circumstances
Obviously though it all depends what costs are involved with selling on PM's SM. If they model their secondary market on PP, (similar costs and regular updates on current property values), I think their housing stock of low capital rises and high rental yields, could make a SM highly successful and lucrative for PM and investors alike.
|
|
pom
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,922 
Likes: 1,244
|
Post by pom on Mar 26, 2016 9:48:02 GMT
I asked Ben about this yesterday - it needed the new website to be able to do it, and it's been built with that in mind. Reckoned it'll be a couple of months (we'll see!) once they've ironed out the kinks. Hope so cos I probably invested too much per property initially and will need to stop investing long before my first investments end if I can't rebalance a bit.
|
|
|
|
Post by propertymoose on Mar 30, 2016 7:56:28 GMT
Thanks for starting the thread. All that has been said is correct and we do anticipate going live with the secondary market before the summer. The next step is to move to the nominee structure so we can physically transfer the shares when a trade takes place but more will follow on this once we have the documents agreed with the lawyers. It should just be a simple one-page document for existing investors to sign and we will take care of the rest. In terms of the secondary market (and I'm conscious that this is a public forum), if anyone has any specific points/suggestions on the secondary market then please do shout either here or by emailing me at andrew@propertymoose.co.uk. This will help us plan and get it released quickly, hopefully covering and improving on anything in the market to date  |
|
j
Member of DD Central
Penguins are very misunderstood!
Posts: 2,188 
Likes: 540
|
Post by j on Mar 30, 2016 8:09:55 GMT
Thanks for starting the thread. All that has been said is correct and we do anticipate going live with the secondary market before the summer. The next step is to move to the nominee structure so we can physically transfer the shares when a trade takes place but more will follow on this once we have the documents agreed with the lawyers. It should just be a simple one-page document for existing investors to sign and we will take care of the rest. In terms of the secondary market (and I'm conscious that this is a public forum), if anyone has any specific points/suggestions on the secondary market then please do shout either here or by emailing me at andrew@propertymoose.co.uk. This will help us plan and get it released quickly, hopefully covering and improving on anything in the market to date Would any tax & CGT aspects be transferred at the point of sale/purchase between buyer & seller or will any liabilities be with original or new buyer once the SM gets going?
|
|
|
|
Post by highlandtiger on Mar 31, 2016 8:18:52 GMT
Thanks for starting the thread. All that has been said is correct and we do anticipate going live with the secondary market before the summer. The next step is to move to the nominee structure so we can physically transfer the shares when a trade takes place but more will follow on this once we have the documents agreed with the lawyers. It should just be a simple one-page document for existing investors to sign and we will take care of the rest. In terms of the secondary market (and I'm conscious that this is a public forum), if anyone has any specific points/suggestions on the secondary market then please do shout either here or by emailing me at andrew@propertymoose.co.uk. This will help us plan and get it released quickly, hopefully covering and improving on anything in the market to date For me, I think you need to take a look at how Property Partners SM works. It seems they have ironed out all the kinks, and it would be daft not to take advantage of someone else's efforts,  I've always said, "if you spot a good idea - use it". Keep it free for the seller, and charge the buyer the same fee as new properties, and I'm sure you'll see your investor numbers increase. Especially as you've dropped your minimum purchase, while PP have increased theirs. I know of several people including myself who used to invest in every property that PP had but as soon as they set up the prefunding minimum to £250, they stopped. Whilst this figure is a drop in the ocean for big hitters, for people getting used to crowdfunding and P2P, you need the low entry level to persuade the "masses" to consider you as a safe place to put their cash. This you've done, and this is how you persuaded me to invest with you.
|
|
|
|
Post by propertymoose on Apr 1, 2016 8:27:55 GMT
Thanks Highlandtiger. We actually released a secondary market in early 2014 on the first ever site (a simple listing function) and were made to take it down by the regulators.....how times change..... Your suggestion on pricing is also helpful, thank you and great that you gave us a try J - we cannot give tax advice and you'll have to speak to an advisor. However, my understanding is that the CGT will apply to the seller at any point they exit. |
|
|
|
Post by penguinz on May 20, 2016 9:09:12 GMT
Hi,
I have been invested with Propertymoose for over a year and am very happy with the performance of my investment and the way the site has developed. I think the site update has been very beneficial and has added value. I am wondering if you could give us an update on how you are getting on with implementing the secondary market?
|
|
|
|
Post by Financial Thing on May 23, 2016 13:58:32 GMT
Thanks Highlandtiger. We actually released a secondary market in early 2014 on the first ever site (a simple listing function) and were made to take it down by the regulators.....how times change..... Your suggestion on pricing is also helpful, thank you and great that you gave us a try J - we cannot give tax advice and you'll have to speak to an advisor. However, my understanding is that the CGT will apply to the seller at any point they exit. My suggestions will be no premiums on secondary market pieces to make encourage liquidity. I do like the idea of being able to offer a discount as a seller if one needs to sell quickly. Oh and please add the valuations to the website, tired of harassing poor Jessica for them each time.
|
|
|
|
Post by baronhardup on Aug 7, 2016 17:58:14 GMT
>> I am wondering if you could give us an update on how you are getting on with implementing the secondary market?
Not very well it seems!
|
|
ilmoro
Member of DD Central
'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
Posts: 11,315
Likes: 11,523
|
Post by ilmoro on Aug 7, 2016 18:12:22 GMT
>> I am wondering if you could give us an update on how you are getting on with implementing the secondary market? Not very well it seems! More recent update in 8% thread. Mid Sept is current estimate
|
|
ben
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 589
|
Post by ben on Aug 7, 2016 19:16:40 GMT
Thanks Highlandtiger. We actually released a secondary market in early 2014 on the first ever site (a simple listing function) and were made to take it down by the regulators.....how times change..... Your suggestion on pricing is also helpful, thank you and great that you gave us a try J - we cannot give tax advice and you'll have to speak to an advisor. However, my understanding is that the CGT will apply to the seller at any point they exit. My suggestions will be no premiums on secondary market pieces to make encourage liquidity. I do like the idea of being able to offer a discount as a seller if one needs to sell quickly. Oh and please add the valuations to the website, tired of harassing poor Jessica for them each time. In another post PM basically said you can sell for what you like and the market will decide on price, hopefully it be something a bit like albrate secondary market where people can offer what they want to buy or sell at.
|
|
pom
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,922
Likes: 1,244
|
Post by pom on Aug 8, 2016 8:11:27 GMT
My suggestions will be no premiums on secondary market pieces to make encourage liquidity. I do like the idea of being able to offer a discount as a seller if one needs to sell quickly. Oh and please add the valuations to the website, tired of harassing poor Jessica for them each time. In another post PM basically said you can sell for what you like and the market will decide on price, hopefully it be something a bit like albrate secondary market where people can offer what they want to buy or sell at. I mentioned the ABL SM to them recently, sounds like they're only planning seller offers for now tho. Which is probably a good thing as it has the potential to end up even more complicated than ABL..
|
|
littleoldlady
Member of DD Central
Running down all platforms due to age
Posts: 3,045
Likes: 1,862
|
Post by littleoldlady on Aug 8, 2016 11:55:50 GMT
In another post PM basically said you can sell for what you like and the market will decide on price, hopefully it be something a bit like albrate secondary market where people can offer what they want to buy or sell at. I mentioned the ABL SM to them recently, sounds like they're only planning seller offers for now tho. Which is probably a good thing as it has the potential to end up even more complicated than ABL.. I can't see the point of buyers' offers. The SM should be a shop window of shares for sale. IMO sellers' offers should be restricted to discounts only, to enable liquidity, no need for premiums. Keep it as simple as possible.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 9,980
Likes: 5,131
Member is Online
|
Post by adrianc on Aug 8, 2016 13:14:20 GMT
I mentioned the ABL SM to them recently, sounds like they're only planning seller offers for now tho. Which is probably a good thing as it has the potential to end up even more complicated than ABL.. I can't see the point of buyers' offers. The SM should be a shop window of shares for sale. IMO sellers' offers should be restricted to discounts only, to enable liquidity, no need for premiums. Keep it as simple as possible. Given how much of the expected return of a share is in the capital growth, I can certainly see a place for offering them on the SM at a premium. Let's say you need to sell after two years of an expected three year project. The value of the property rises by 15% over the three years. If you sell after two years at par, that's a 10% discount, effectively, because you're losing out on two-thirds of that capital growth. It'd make the SM a real bearpit, because everything for sale would be at a substantial discount to the real value (unless the value had fallen or merely stagnated).
|
|
pom
Member of DD Central
Posts: 1,922
Likes: 1,244
|
Post by pom on Aug 8, 2016 13:35:01 GMT
I mentioned the ABL SM to them recently, sounds like they're only planning seller offers for now tho. Which is probably a good thing as it has the potential to end up even more complicated than ABL.. I can't see the point of buyers' offers. The SM should be a shop window of shares for sale. IMO sellers' offers should be restricted to discounts only, to enable liquidity, no need for premiums. Keep it as simple as possible. Buyer's offers may be useful to help find sensible prices. As for discounts it really depends on what people consider as a discount given the shares are already originally purchased at a big discount on market value. It would be unrealistic to expect sellers to give up all that gain, but if they sell at current value that will completely trash the rental yields and future gain the buyer could expect, making it totally unattractive to any sensible buyer. There will likely be a sweet spot where the seller keeps some of the gain, whilst not completely trashing the potential rental yields & gain for the buyer. Buyer's offers might have got us to that stage sooner, but so long as PM are clearer about all the implications than say FS were, it ought to work OK.
|
|
I've always said, "if you spot a good idea - use it".
