Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Oct 18, 2016 18:48:08 GMT
Aargh, lose-lose-win
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ben
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Post by ben on Oct 19, 2016 19:32:21 GMT
Steerpike , that may have worked well for properties bought before the SM was released. However with the latest 64 and 66 that came out after the SM was released it looks like many people had the same idea and over-bought. Now these two are selling at 9.80-9.90 Thats the problem with premiums people over buy intentially with intention of selling it on at a profit. Why anybody would bother buying at a premium when there is a constant flow of new loans I am not sure.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Oct 19, 2016 20:57:42 GMT
Steerpike , that may have worked well for properties bought before the SM was released. However with the latest 64 and 66 that came out after the SM was released it looks like many people had the same idea and over-bought. Now these two are selling at 9.80-9.90 Thats the problem with premiums people over buy intentially with intention of selling it on at a profit. Why anybody would bother buying at a premium when there is a constant flow of new loans I am not sure. There has to be a premium to reflect the increased value of the property. I bought into SPV1 at the end of its term and paid a premium but I expect to make a nice profit if PM are to be believed about the sale price that has been agreed. Why anybody would bother buying a recent loan at a premium when there is a constant flow of new loans I am not sure.
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pom
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Post by pom on Oct 20, 2016 12:05:38 GMT
Why would anyone buy on the SM at all? Because they want to diversify quickly, older properties may have been listed before they joined, for newer ones they may have missed the window thanks to what would appear to be opportunistic flippers.
I find myself rather bemused at the flippers...is it REALLY worth it? If they're doing it on a small scale they're not going to make much, if they're trying it on a large scale then they're undoubtedly going to end up with a nightmarish CGT reporting task (especially with the £10 shares). All for a fair degree of effort and a risk of ending up stuck with something they may not actually want. Well whatever floats your boat I guess.
I'd be very surprised if (m)any of the highly priced ones ever actually sell. My gut feel is that 10% on top of what was paid may end up being about the limit, and only then if the property is proving to be performing well, otherwise there's no scope left for the buyer. That's certainly the highest I've sold at so far and that was on a really great performing property (SPV 23)
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Oct 20, 2016 12:56:52 GMT
On the latest, SPV 67, one flipper has bought about £5k and relisted straight away at 1.5% premium. I had watched on the previous 2 that someone listed at a premium at first but then had to drop to over 2% discount as they probably got desperate to sell (in just a few days). I didn't realise that the CGT reporting would be that complicated pom - I thought PM would have a tax report to calculate it all in one go? |
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pom
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Post by pom on Oct 20, 2016 13:27:36 GMT
On the latest, SPV 67, one flipper has bought about £5k and relisted straight away at 1.5% premium. I had watched on the previous 2 that someone listed at a premium at first but then had to drop to over 2% discount as they probably got desperate to sell (in just a few days). I didn't realise that the CGT reporting would be that complicated pom - I thought PM would have a tax report to calculate it all in one go? I suggested to them a couple of months ago that if they were launching an SM it would be really nice if they'd work out a way to auto-generate them for us, but as yet we really don't know what they might provide given the SM has just launched, and we're only just getting to the first end-of-terms so no-ones had any capital transactions to report yet. And the vast majority of investors probably won't need to worry about it anyway. It may even be that so few are likely to be affected (unless you make 11k of gains or sell 44k of assets in a year you don't need to worry) that it won't be worth them doing....I really hope they do, but I'm keeping notes in readiness as I'm already having to manually calc for ABLrate which is significantly more complicated just because other non-p2p stuff pushes me over the reporting boundary. Should be pretty easy for PM but I wouldn't want to have to do it for hundreds (thousands if flipping really takes off?) of £10 share SM transactions (so I don't intend to ever sell any). I have a nasty feeling that if a flipper is selling at a loss its because they anticipate being in a position to be able to offset that loss (so haven't really lost out anyway)...but that really sounds like far too much work for the gains to me 
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lofty
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Post by lofty on Oct 31, 2016 11:13:54 GMT
Now that the secondary market is running I thought I'd give it a look and possibly diversify my investments, however there are a couple of niggling issues which make it difficult for me to make an assesment of a good vs bad choice.
Firstly, I've noticed that when a property goes live all of the details breakdown of costs and forecasts disappear. While it may not be critical for investments I made from the off (because I've a reasonable memory, and a spreadsheet!) it does make deciding where to invest in a secondary market property uncertain.
This is not helped by not having clear details on when the property term started (yes, I can have a rough guess based on the spv number). Without these dates the figure for projected growth must be taken with a pinch of salt. Does this mean I'm going to get x% over a remaining 1 month, or are there 3 years to go (if I could get some of these growth figures over 1 month I would be investing very heavily... )
Also I can't see how many total shares are allocated. Again, I can take a good guess that there are some shares based on a £10 purchase price and some on a £500 (presumably when the minimum investment amount was changed). But without this spelled out somewhere it makes calculating a final return difficult. To a lesser extent I'm also vulnerable to someone trying to con me into thinking I'm getting a bargain at £450 when their actually only worth a tenner.
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Oct 31, 2016 12:04:38 GMT
I completely agree with you on the disappearing financial details after fully funding lofty . For new ones I am using a google chrome plugin to take a screenshot of the entire page ( chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/capture-webpage-screensho/mcbpblocgmgfnpjjppndjkmgjaogfceg) but obviously useless for old ones. Also in my experience PM have been very reluctant to ever give out RICS valuations (is that just me or has anyone else had a similar experience?). The shares are either all £500 or £10 apart from the first loan PMF A which is £100. The main problem with valuing it is that the 'discount percentage' does not exactly equal the discount that you buy at, as it is before all their costs and fees which add a few thousand. This is why I'd love to get RICS valuations. Also the value given on the SM seems to price in all the growth on day one, so something like the leveraged 5 year SPV 54 shoots up from £10 to £16.67 valuation straight away. |
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Nov 8, 2016 20:01:07 GMT
SM seems to have disappeared! Still there for me. Have you seen it before? I'm wondering if you've not signed the nominee thingy which makes it appear.
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Nov 8, 2016 20:20:52 GMT
SM seems to have disappeared! Looks like you can still buy and sell once you click into a specific property. Edit, more info: In my original session in google chrome, on the main property list there was no reference to the SM at all but once you clicked in to a specific property you can see as normal. After I did a hard refresh CTRL+F5 it went back to normal.
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Nov 10, 2016 12:40:43 GMT
SPV 52 just disappeared?
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Nov 10, 2016 19:31:12 GMT
After the update yesterday about the difficulties with the developer that doesn't sound too promising! I am not in this one so did not get the update. What seems to be the problem?
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Nov 10, 2016 19:42:37 GMT
littleoldlady - developer is demanding far more money per square foot and a large cash bond. Using Brexit as excuse. The message says all investors will get a 'full refund' if needs be, I hope this will include SM transaction fees.
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lofty
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Post by lofty on Nov 15, 2016 17:25:42 GMT
I'm sure a few days ago the shares available price on the main screen omitted the 2% transaction fee that PM are adding. Probably the right thing to do but it does make it look like there's been a sudden jump in prices.
That said, it could also be people modifying their for sale prices.
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Nov 15, 2016 20:40:08 GMT
It's them adding the 2% fee, when you click into a property it still shows the old price.
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