brin
I am trying to stay calm.
Posts: 379
Likes: 69
|
Post by brin on Apr 10, 2016 9:04:28 GMT
It didn't happen to any large degree last night due to:- 1. The culprit/s hadn't unloaded the funds from the previous night, so another 24hrs interest isn't a problem, because... 2. Weekends are free pickings - no 'Please settle your negative balance' emails are sent out. Tonight will be the same scenario, unless, of course, large amounts of the remaining available funds are bought legitimately. If you think about it logically, more than one account/person being involved could keep this scam going indefinitely - 'Please settle your negative balance' gives at least a couple of day's grace. Meanwhile, a second account buys the remainder, and so on and so forth. Do you reckon SS know about this ?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,014 
Likes: 5,142
|
Post by adrianc on Apr 10, 2016 9:05:16 GMT
Day 1 - buy £100,000. Have -£100,000 balance. Day 2 - sell £100,000. Have £0 balance. No -ve balance, no trigger for "clear -ve balance" email, no suspicion of naughtiness, so no interest removal. One night's interest on £100,000 = 1/365th of £12,000 = about £33. is this happening? cannot believe SS are letting this happen, if it is happening. There's been quite a few times when I've bought a part in one loan, then sold a similar amount of the same loan in quick succession, leaving me with a zero (or neutral) balance, for various reasons - maybe to consolidate lots of small parts into one large one, maybe to mop up some spare money then something more interesting comes up. No problems at all.
|
|
brin
I am trying to stay calm.
Posts: 379
Likes: 69
|
Post by brin on Apr 10, 2016 9:09:25 GMT
is this happening? cannot believe SS are letting this happen, if it is happening. There's been quite a few times when I've bought a part in one loan, then sold a similar amount of the same loan in quick succession, leaving me with a zero (or neutral) balance, for various reasons - maybe to consolidate lots of small parts into one large one, maybe to mop up some spare money then something more interesting comes up. No problems at all. Agree with that, what you are doing is perfectly legit and reasonable, but is the other way just a scam?
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,014
Likes: 5,142
|
Post by adrianc on Apr 10, 2016 9:18:32 GMT
There's been quite a few times when I've bought a part in one loan, then sold a similar amount of the same loan in quick succession, leaving me with a zero (or neutral) balance, for various reasons - maybe to consolidate lots of small parts into one large one, maybe to mop up some spare money then something more interesting comes up. No problems at all. Agree with that, what you are doing is perfectly legit and reasonable, but is the other way just a scam? Define "scam".
|
|
brin
I am trying to stay calm.
Posts: 379
Likes: 69
|
Post by brin on Apr 10, 2016 9:22:36 GMT
Agree with that, what you are doing is perfectly legit and reasonable, but is the other way just a scam? Define "scam". Hee Hee, i think i know what you mean, if its legit and above board then technically its not a scam, but it doesn't seem like the correct way to carry on.
|
|
adrianc
Member of DD Central
Posts: 10,014
Likes: 5,142
|
Post by adrianc on Apr 10, 2016 9:23:34 GMT
Hee Hee, i think i know what you mean, if its legit and above board then technically its not a scam, but it doesn't seem like the correct way to carry on. Ah, the political "smell test" - aka, does Rupert Murdoch have a vested interest at risk...?
|
|
brin
I am trying to stay calm.
Posts: 379
Likes: 69
|
Post by brin on Apr 10, 2016 9:35:54 GMT
Hee Hee, i think i know what you mean, if its legit and above board then technically its not a scam, but it doesn't seem like the correct way to carry on. Ah, the political "smell test" - aka, does Rupert Murdoch have a vested interest at risk...? yep, "scam" its a matter of opinion, of how each one of us views it , but if SS do take action (which they do occasionally) as MONEY suggested, then even tho its legit, even SS are not keen on tolerating it.
|
|
Liz
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,426
Likes: 1,297
|
Post by Liz on Apr 10, 2016 11:24:32 GMT
It didn't happen to any large degree last night due to:- 1. The culprit/s hadn't unloaded the funds from the previous night, so another 24hrs interest isn't a problem, because... 2. Weekends are free pickings - no 'Please settle your negative balance' emails are sent out. Tonight will be the same scenario, unless, of course, large amounts of the remaining available funds are bought legitimately. If you think about it logically, more than one account/person being involved could keep this scam going indefinitely - 'Please settle your negative balance' gives at least a couple of day's grace. Meanwhile, a second account buys the remainder, and so on and so forth. That is possible, but I'm sure if savingstream would notice this "passing the parcel". ie, the same people always having a big negative balance, wouldn't go unnoticed. Doing this small scale might go unnoticed, but then it wouldn't be worth it for a few pounds a month.
|
|
brin
I am trying to stay calm.
Posts: 379
Likes: 69
|
Post by brin on Apr 10, 2016 11:37:45 GMT
Cannot see myself whats going on here, if the buyer does not fund the purchase then surely they cannot gain any interest on the purchase, so what is the point of buying it in the first place, it's baffling me, (although that does not mean anything) plus, sometimes i go on late on late at night looking for any little nougats that might pop up to buy and they are gone in a jiffy. puzzled..  Day 1 - buy £100,000. Have -£100,000 balance. Day 2 - sell £100,000. Have £0 balance. No -ve balance, no trigger for "clear -ve balance" email, no suspicion of naughtiness, so no interest removal. One night's interest on £100,000 = 1/365th of £12,000 = about £33. I wouldn't class the scenario adrianc put forward as a scam, personally. Infact, it's quite likely something we have all done at some time or another - I know that I have, but only when I have complete confidence in either being able to pay the outstanding balance with funds I already have, and/or by selling some of the more sort after loan parts to raise the funds. Perhaps the scenario that brought about this whole discussion cannot be defined as a scam, but it is exploiting a very useful something that no other platform I know of gives - funds upfront, where a large proportion of goodwill from savingstream is being abused. In which case, we can only hope that if/when savingstream do plug the proverbial hole, it isn't in a way that is detrimental to the large majority of more honourable lenders. hello MONEY , i was referring to the above scenario of trying to play the system with 100k for £33.00 per day, i wasn't suggesting adrianc was pulling a scam, sorry i've still not got this quoting thing just right, what adrianc suggested is something i have done myself, ie buy some stuff and then sell some to negate the balance. I would not see the top scenario as being a decent way to use the system, although it might well be ok to do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 11:38:54 GMT
It seems like quite a few use the credit facility when new loans go live at the end of a week. In this case they won't put other loan parts up for sale until Monday to pay for new loan parts and so get a few extra days interest
It happens every time and it's not just a few people. Is this a problem, probably not as the vast majority of these will pay up, by adding funds or selling parts and SS also benefit by not needing to underwrite the loans.
|
|
brin
I am trying to stay calm.
Posts: 379
Likes: 69
|
Post by brin on Apr 10, 2016 11:47:06 GMT
Day 1 - buy £100,000. Have -£100,000 balance. Day 2 - sell £100,000. Have £0 balance. No -ve balance, no trigger for "clear -ve balance" email, no suspicion of naughtiness, so no interest removal. One night's interest on £100,000 = 1/365th of £12,000 = about £33. It seems like quite a few use the credit facility when new loans go live at the end of a week. In this case they won't put other loan parts up for sale until Monday to pay for new loan parts and so get a few extra days interest It happens every time and it's not just a few people. Is this a problem, probably not as the vast majority of these will pay up, by adding funds or selling parts and SS also benefit by not needing services of underwriters. fully agree.. and i think if anyone is using the system above with no intention of depositing the funds, then in my book its a scam to earn yourself an easy £33 per day.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 10, 2016 13:48:20 GMT
A couple of problems with that .. Apart from needing SS to be completely clueless. First there is a limit on how overdrawn you can go. Secondly you need to be sure you can sell the £100k ... Until you do, you still owe the money.
It has been tried (search/read the forum), which is WHY there is now an overdraft limit.
|
|
Liz
Member of DD Central
Posts: 2,426
Likes: 1,297
|
Post by Liz on Apr 10, 2016 14:40:38 GMT
A couple of problems with that .. Apart from needing SS to be completely clueless. First there is a limit on how overdrawn you can go. Secondly you need to be sure you can sell the £100k ... Until you do, you still owe the money. It has been tried (search/read the forum), which is WHY there is now an overdraft limit. SS wouldn't need to be clueless - as I said, someone is earning interest anyway, whether it be underwriters or Saving Stream lenders - it's more to do with prioritising time. I was aware of the credit limit the moment I tried to invest £10k+ in a new loan, and of the account restrictions that were put in place according to balance. Subsequently, following a quick call to Tim, my personal limit (or maybe all limits) was raised to... I'm not sure, but I am sure of two things - 1. It's now 6-figures plus, and 2. I am not alone. ======================================================================= I can still only prefund my portfolio, rounded down to the nearest £5k. I agree that SS would have to be clueless to miss this abuse, which they aren't. I fear that the INPL model may come to an end soon nonetheless.
|
|
|
|
Post by GSV3MIaC on Apr 10, 2016 15:09:59 GMT
You can read the thread where savingstream stamped on the abusers here: p2pindependentforum.com/thread/4615/new-rules-inpl-systemYes. I am sure you can get the limit waived if you ask .. however big brother is definitely watching for abuse, which really isn't that hard to spot ('average portfolio size > average balance +x%' would catch it rather fast). Apart from SS themselves, there are plenty of investors ready to pounce / point the finger. |
|
sl75
Posts: 2,092
Likes: 1,245
|
Post by sl75 on Apr 10, 2016 15:19:06 GMT
I think that what happens is that SS have a mechanism to determine which loan parts were "sold before paid for", and ignore them when paying the monthly interest.
At least one of my loan parts seems to have been identified as such (at the time, I was doing a bank transfer each day to clear the previous evening's balance, but usually buying more the next morning, putting the balance negative, so depending on what you count as having "paid for" each loan part, it could be quite correctly deduced that they'd not been paid for), and the statement does not show the interest that appears in the "sold loan parts" section.
I'm not sure that CD's "shane" alter-ego can be taken as reliable [edit: although my hypothesis was that he was accurately reporting what happened in "shane's" account], but he'd reported similar findings - "accidentally" buying too much of a loan, selling before it was paid for when he "noticed" the next day, and not actually receiving the interest.
|
|
