adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 21, 2016 9:34:09 GMT
Interesting news on LBC Radio just now: apparently 46% of Leave voters believe the referendum result will be rigged! And even 10% of remain voters believe it. <rolls eyes> Gotta love a good conspiracy theory.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Jun 21, 2016 9:57:18 GMT
Interesting news on LBC Radio just now: apparently 46% of Leave voters believe the referendum result will be rigged! And even 10% of remain voters believe it. <rolls eyes> Gotta love a good conspiracy theory. Hardly a conspiracy theory when there is already recent evidence of similar. Tower Hamlets election fraud mayor Lutfur Rahman removed from officeTo think that some people would not try to rig the results when so much is at stake strikes me as naive.
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 21, 2016 10:06:43 GMT
To conflate a mayoral election in one borough with a national referendum is.... well, I hope you have at least some faith in our democracy / democratic system.
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Post by brianac on Jun 21, 2016 10:09:58 GMT
Oooo that extra penny  ...  The best way to get your own back was to buy fuel at the coldest part of the day........reason - mass flow meters were very expensive to buy back in the 80's, odds are that the petrol pumps used volumetric flow meters, so by the time you came to use the cold fuel the volume would have increased very slightly due to increased temperature change. This is just a theory, because the fuel is stored in underground tanks the fuel temperature may not change much at all. Surely if the pump was cold it wouldhold less volume anyway? Brian
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 21, 2016 10:19:50 GMT
To conflate a mayoral election in one borough with a national referendum is.... well, I hope you have at least some faith in our democracy / democratic system. If not, then trying to give that democratic system more power, on the basis that they're the only democratic option, seems a little counter-intuitive. The Tower Hamlets shenanigans - and, yes, there have been others - was shameful. It was uncovered by the Electoral Commission, who would have to be involved in anything but very minor tampering of a national election. If we want to draw other parallels between that episode and this referendum, then it might be of interest to note that Rahman's original candidacy for mayor was heavily supported by George Galloway - last seen sharing a Leave platform with Nigel Farage, who himself has an inglorious history of taking liberties with established electoral conventions, as well as blaming vote-rigging at every single opportunity.
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bigfoot12
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Post by bigfoot12 on Jun 21, 2016 10:25:25 GMT
The best way to get your own back was to buy fuel at the coldest part of the day........reason - mass flow meters were very expensive to buy back in the 80's, odds are that the petrol pumps used volumetric flow meters, so by the time you came to use the cold fuel the volume would have increased very slightly due to increased temperature change. This is just a theory, because the fuel is stored in underground tanks the fuel temperature may not change much at all. Surely if the pump was cold it wouldhold less volume anyway? Brian I think that the thermal expansion coefficient of petrol is much higher than that of likely pump materials, for example, steel.
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 21, 2016 11:25:17 GMT
Surely if the pump was cold it wouldhold less volume anyway? Brian I think that the thermal expansion coefficient of petrol is much higher than that of likely pump materials, for example, steel. Bigfoot12 is correct, anyway the volume of fuel stored in the actual pump is such a tiny amount ie about a cupful it probably wouldn't change the end result.....but you would in theory still end up better off. There is a much greater volume in the long hose that could make a difference! It is all just theory....it just made me feel better when 1p "secret nudge" bumped up the price. 
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Post by earthbound on Jun 21, 2016 11:32:27 GMT
I think that the thermal expansion coefficient of petrol is much higher than that of likely pump materials, for example, steel. Bigfoot12 is correct, anyway the volume of fuel stored in the actual pump is such a tiny amount ie about a cupful it probably wouldn't change the end result.....but you would in theory still end up better off. There is a much greater volume in the long hose that could make a difference! It is all just theory....it just made me feel better when 1p "secret nudge" bumped up the price. Does that mean, if i only look at my petrol gauge on hot days, it will seem like i have more petrol than i really have? 
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Post by captainconfident on Jun 21, 2016 12:08:12 GMT
This thread, this whole debate in all media, seems to me like rationalists versus those possessed by religious fervour. There is no reasoned argument or fact which can trouble a true believer. So who are the rationalists and who are the religious believers? You all know which is which. Yes, that's right. Anyone who wants to leave the EU is irrational and obviously isn't thinking straight. I'm convinced now - there is not a single reason to leave the EU. Thanks. This is nothing more than pointlessly divisive drivel that adds nothing to the debate other than to insult your opponents. I honestly thought that each side would think they were the rationalists and the other were the fantasists. Claims of feeling insult is quite typical of the religious and is a live political issue:- www.rt.com/politics/responsibility-insulting-feelings-believers-526/
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 21, 2016 12:12:18 GMT
Yep. Bearing in mind the mass of fuel will be the same, if the ambient temp was say 14C first thing in the morning and you had 50l measured in your tank later in the day the temp could be 20C and you could have about 50.29l measured in your tank (It would depend on how quickly the fuel could change temp)......I believe garage owners' bills from fuel companies allow for temperature variations. I also believe they used to check fuel deliveries with dipsticks not so long ago.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 21, 2016 12:50:47 GMT
Don't forget that filling station tanks are buried underground, where temperatures across the course of a day are much, MUCH smaller than if the tanks were aboveground. And the UK has relatively small temperature variations anyway, compared to many places.
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 21, 2016 13:05:17 GMT
Oooo that extra penny ... This is just a theory, because the fuel is stored in underground tanks the fuel temperature may not change much at all. Already covered
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Jun 21, 2016 17:50:03 GMT
It's funny how different perspectives and opinions can be, presented with the same material. I don't like quite a lot of the remain campaign approach, but at the least the majority of it (imho) is based on some kind of reasoned analysis, whereas I look at the leave campaign and see a lot of at best bluster and at worst vitriolic bile. Certainly an almost complete lack of any reasoned analysis. I do think a lot of the unsavoury campaigning is down to Nigel Farage, I don't think either of the two official campaigns have a lot to be proud of. I don't really think Remain or Leave supports, can blame the other side for the negative campaign. If this is politics, then it's no wonder turnout is falling, or the extreme right is on the rise in Europe. If Remain win, which would be good for me, I worry the political classes, especially Labour, underestimate the problems in this country. I also hope we won't be stuck with a government that is elitist. The problem is an Elitist party is looking a better than a socialist party. We need a new paradigm. It could be worse, the USA have a choice between Trump or Clinton, do you want to drown or be hung! PS, why do we have to judge everything on GDP, what about quality of life or clean air, or a better society? Then again I want to earn my 13% in p2p!
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Post by earthbound on Jun 21, 2016 18:23:05 GMT
Last debate tonight 8pm.. cant wait |
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jun 21, 2016 18:36:39 GMT
Liz , broadly speaking, agreed. The other thing I find interesting is that the remain side includes those who's message contains some doubt, or uncertainty. It seems to me that this is entirely absent from the leave side. This is something that intrinsically makes me distrustful of their message. The world is complex and uncertain, and a position that lacks nuance or the acceptance of that uncertainty is a little bit too sure of itself for my liking. For all that I disagree with the majority of the leave camp, Grove and Johnson are smart people, and this, more than anything else, makes me question their motives. Quite apart from anything else it encourages the demagoguery we've come to expect as standard. This actually upsets me - last night I "unfriended" somebody I was at university with 20 odd years ago. Why? I'd had enough of the bile they were spewing. The final straw was a photo of a WWI memorial, a soldier bowed, head in hands, with some children looking on. He (somebody anyway) had written over the top of it "Sorry kids, it wasn't worth it after all". How have we come to a place where anybody could think that something like that was acceptable? It makes me worry for the future of the country regardless of the outcome of the vote - there are going to be a lot of bitter, resentful people on one side or the other  .
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