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Post by meledor on Jun 29, 2016 16:00:02 GMT
I know trading of Individual Fish Quotas IFQs can be traded in some parts of the world. However, not sure if it is allowed within the EU. Even if it was I would hope it would only be permissible between individuals of the same nation.
I'm afraid not. In fact the British Government tried to prevent Spanish companies buying up British trawlers to get extra quotas. It was overruled by the European Court of Justice in a case know as the Factortame judgement.
Thankfully now we have opted for Brexit we have a chance to implement a rational fishing policy for British waters.
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Post by meledor on Jun 29, 2016 16:36:43 GMT
Nice maps, but a completely false impression is given that there is free market in fishing - a British trawler can fish anywhere it likes in the EU waters. This is not how the CFP works; it is based on national quotas that are set in Brussels. If you haven't got a quota for that area or you have exceeded it you can't fish. Yep. Just as applies for everybody else. In 13% of the waters? Sounds like a load of pollock to me, but I'm sure you can demonstrate it... Oh, fertheloveofcod... BTW... fullfact.org/europe/eu-pinching-our-fish/ - but I s'pose you'll just throw that back as having some kind of inherent bias.
As regards the 70% of fish caught in the EU is in British waters you say "I'm sure you can demonstrate it". But I had. Did you not read the Austin Mitchell quote? Did you not find it in the Taxpayer Alliance link that I gave earlier to read it in context? Or are you just happy to say "load of pollock" and for the "love of cod" and "British fishermen are idle gits who couldn't be bothered to walk further than the corner shop" because it sounds really witty?
The North Sea and the Celtic Sea are important fishing grounds and that is why there is so much fish in British waters which of course was the whole point of the resource grab when the CFP was set up.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 29, 2016 16:52:29 GMT
I'm afraid not. In fact the British Government tried to prevent Spanish companies buying up British trawlers to get extra quotas. So these quotas were willingly sold by British fishermen? Strange how the Spanish can, apparently, make use of those quotas profitably when the British can't, isn't it? As regards the 70% of fish caught in the EU is in British waters you say "I'm sure you can demonstrate it". But I had. Did you not read the Austin Mitchell quote? Did you not find it in the Taxpayer Alliance link that I gave earlier to read it in context? Yes, I read a completely unsourced and unreferenced quote. There's a footnote that gives a link to an EU document - which doesn't actually work - but the link is, apparently, not even supporting the 70% figure, just the 5.3m ton figure. Anyway, you'll forgive me for regarding neither the Taxpayer's Alliance nor the MP for Grimsby as particularly neutral sources on the subject.
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Liz
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Post by Liz on Jun 29, 2016 18:40:20 GMT
FTSE on the rise crisis over  Apart from my RBS shares  How long before European and American companies start complaining about their competition, UK businesses that have prices that are now 10% cheaper? And they want their Politicians and central banks to act to defend their currency:)) |
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 29, 2016 18:52:24 GMT
I'm afraid not. In fact the British Government tried to prevent Spanish companies buying up British trawlers to get extra quotas. So these quotas were willingly sold by British fishermen? Strange how the Spanish can, apparently, make use of those quotas profitably when the British can't, isn't it? As I mentioned earlier I seem to remember the Spanish fishermen didn't play fairly, they used smaller mesh size nets to catch very small fish on purpose, because there was a large home market ready to buy them. I think they broke other rules too, but perhaps someone from the industry can enlighten us.
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skippyonspeed
Some people think I'm a little bit crazy, but I know my mind's not hazy
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Post by skippyonspeed on Jun 29, 2016 19:46:28 GMT
FTSE on the rise crisis over Apart from my RBS shares I would forget about your RBS shares, if I were you. You seem to have broken one of the rules of trading ie don't 'fall in love' with a share. On the bright side, get your timing right, & you could easily get back lost money in these extremely volatile markets. As long as you stick to some basic rules. 1 See above. 2 Don't get too greedy, best sell when price is still rising than to try when price is falling fast. Along term investment in these times, is a short term one gone wrong. 3 Try to sell on the same day as buying, you never know what may turn the market overnight. Cash is king. 4 It's never wrong to take a profit, even if you sell too early. There will always be another share. 5 Avoid the first 15 minutes of trading, unless a share you broke rule 3 with, opens higher than expected for no particular reason, sell as quickly as possible.
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Post by meledor on Jun 29, 2016 19:57:38 GMT
So these quotas were willingly sold by British fishermen? Strange how the Spanish can, apparently, make use of those quotas profitably when the British can't, isn't it? As I mentioned earlier I seem to remember the Spanish fishermen didn't play fairly, they used smaller mesh size nets to catch very small fish on purpose, because there was a large home market ready to buy them. I think they broke other rules too, but perhaps someone from the industry can enlighten us.
Your memory is correct. Over the years I have had many holidays in Falmouth and there would often be a Spanish trawler in the port that had been seized for illegal fishing. But here's the thing - these same trawler companies had often received substantial subsidies from the EU.
www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/searescue/article1062537.ece
The issues of subsidies and the profit from illegal fishing of course answers Adrian's point about how the Spanish are able to buy up quotas.
Now don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Spanish fishermen and I remember a very pleasant holiday in Galicia a few year ago. But they or rather their government extracted a very lucrative deal from the EU when Spain joined in 1985 whereas our government has by and large been supine and ineffective. The mistake of the political class was to think the British people were always going to be similarly docile and spineless - hence the great sense of shock when the people decided to take back control.
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fp
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Post by fp on Jun 29, 2016 22:23:27 GMT
As I mentioned earlier I seem to remember the Spanish fishermen didn't play fairly, they used smaller mesh size nets to catch very small fish on purpose, because there was a large home market ready to buy them. I think they broke other rules too, but perhaps someone from the industry can enlighten us.
Your memory is correct. Over the years I have had many holidays in Falmouth and there would often be a Spanish trawler in the port that had been seized for illegal fishing. But here's the thing - these same trawler companies had often received substantial subsidies from the EU.
www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/searescue/article1062537.ece
The issues of subsidies and the profit from illegal fishing of course answers Adrian's point about how the Spanish are able to buy up quotas.
Now don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Spanish fishermen and I remember a very pleasant holiday in Galicia a few year ago. But they or rather their government extracted a very lucrative deal from the EU when Spain joined in 1985 whereas our government has by and large been supine and ineffective. The mistake of the political class was to think the British people were always going to be similarly docile and spineless - hence the great sense of shock when the people decided to take back control.
€8 billion springs to mind, theres plenty available online if you want to educate yourself about the corrupt Spanish fishing industry, its not just UK waters which have been pillaged.
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Post by chielamangus on Jul 1, 2016 16:54:08 GMT
Have followed this discussion and been much taken by adrianc's opinions and assertions. Is there anything this guy is not an expert on? I spent 5 years in fisheries economics and could really have used all his expertise when analysing policy. And every other subject that I have ever worked on, I find that he knows it all. It seems to me that we have here the ideal man to lead the country out of its present mess. He has an answer for everything. Move over, Theresa. |
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registerme
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Post by registerme on Jul 1, 2016 17:32:48 GMT
Have followed this discussion and been much taken by adrianc 's opinions and assertions. Is there anything this guy is not an expert on? I spent 5 years in fisheries economics and could really have used all his expertise when analysing policy. And every other subject that I have ever worked on, I find that he knows it all. It seems to me that we have here the ideal man to lead the country out of its present mess. He has an answer for everything. Move over, Theresa.
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Post by chielamangus on Jul 1, 2016 18:22:32 GMT
Rather than attack another forumite it would be a lot more useful if you would use your expertise to explain the rights and wrongs of the discussion to date, and provide an analysis of where we might expect fish stocks and the fishing industry to go in the future.
I think meledor has put the case. I am sure forumites don't want a lecture on the complexities of management of a common property resource, the role of distance from fishing grounds in demersal and pelagic fisheries, the evolution of different catching technologies over the past 40 years, or the failures of EU policies, and I am sure I have better things to do. In any case, the immediate issue is the ownership of the fish stocks, and that is a political question, not an economic one. This is a forum for different points of view, and some are useful. But many are not, and surely you would not expect someone to spend their valuable time rebutting every inanity that crops up here? Give us a break!
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Post by oldnick on Jul 1, 2016 18:51:48 GMT
[/quote] ... This is a forum for different points of view, and some are useful. But many are not, and surely you would not expect someone to spend their valuable time rebutting every inanity that crops up here? Give us a break! [/quote] Whilst I would defend your right to husband your time spent on the forum, and understand your frustration in reading what you appear to consider erroneous opinions, I must agree with registerme - play the ball, not the man. |
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