Brexit - Tory leadership contest

I accept your points adrianc with respect to the EDF/Areva build but the waters are more muddied when you look at the Chinese 'companies'.  I still maintain that the investment should be made by Britain.

As for the National Grid, it is my belief that such vital infrastructure should be in the control of the British G'ment ..... that may make me sound like a Corbinista but if it does so be it!

Far better to keep the lights on and our lives running than cutting 12 minutes off a train journey....... time to look at spending priorities as well for the new G'ment .....IMHO of course

Fact is Hinkley Point C shouldn't go ahead it is to use the wrong reactors, there are better out there that will meet UK safety requirements at a far lower cost both for build and for costs to term.

duck , no question EDF’s EPR was the wrong choice. Does the retired insider have a view on SMR’s (small modular reactors), which DECC is looking to for future UK nuclear deployment? AIUI they sound (if we do need more nuclear) a possibly better route, but one problem is the suppliers need a considerable number of orders (60-70+ reactors) to be able to offer these on competitive terms, & it’s unclear if there is demand for this, when it could emerge (& if that will be too late for the UK’s pressing needs.)

On your point about the “hospitals asked to go off-grid” I think you’re referring to DSR (demand side response) measures NG are needing to implement to ensure the lights stay on. Couple of points. The types of users I’ve seen using this have been chilled storage operators who eg agree to turn off/down their refrigeration for a couple of hours in the evening when total energy demand is high (& their own cooling requirements negligible/non-existent). They use less energy & get a fee for tweaking down – net result win (for the company, it’s bottom line & the economy) win (for the grid, stability & running costs), win (for the environment & energy security – less energy wasted). Note sure we’re at the point yet where people on life-supports in hospitals have to participate ;-)

The other way to reduce brown-out risk (also used) is on the Supply side whereby energy generators are paid a fee (to keep their plant on standby, nothing more) under Capacity Market mechanisms. This is where the serious money goes. Effectively we’re paying the utilities large subsidies to keep their plants open (which in many cases the generators themselves admit they would have done anyway, without the fee). The fee btw is paid for the amount of power you keep on standby, not the amount you actually produce (so a big coal plant can collect a fee just for staying open ie being there even if it doesn’t generate anything.)

It’s highly controversial (viewed by many as subsidising dirty old fossil-fuel plant which has been amortized already) & was in fact going to be banned by the EU as state-aid (pillaged from the pockets of bill-payers) to the old energy encumbents (until they decided to make an exception for the UK, partly the usual fudge compromises partly to see how the UK’s system would end up working in practice & if there could be any lessons to learn.)

www.energypost.eu/understanding-uks-capacity-market/

Anyhow, interested in your thoughts on SMR’s. DECC’s decision to go with EDF’s EPR was not only the wrong choice but was also made at a time when it was already clear the EPR (already way over budget & delivery timelines & as yet totally unproven in the only 2 sites it was being deployed in Flamanville & Finland) was very likely to be a losing bet (when as you say there were other alternatives). I’m intrigued if SMR’s are a sign DECC have now upped their game, or once again risk backing a loser.

In the meantime (looming in the background) renewables get cheaper & cheaper..

Besides which they ALL have environmental impacts (in the case of the barrages, on wildlife). I guess solar is probably the best option, if we can figure out how to store it until required. Or biomass (unless they ship woodchip in from the USA, which is pretty dumb, but my local power station was IIRC). The ideal solution is 'fewer people on the planet', but no government seems to want to sign up for that (OK, China did once).

If only fusion wasn't always 30years away!

Sorry duck  you got me on the wrong topic. Promise to leave you alone in a mo, apols ;-)

On a related issue www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36811029 why is the UK so reliant on just one storage facility?

I think you’re forgetting the (big) LNG terminals. Natural gas storage was always really more a short-term energy security (a few days/weeks worth in winter) resource in most countries, it’s not a UK anomaly.

There is a lot of work going on regarding electricity storage but that is some way off and won't solve our current problem.

Depends what our current problem is. There’s a LOT going on (& prices are plummeting) across a number of chemistries & applications, from both grid-scale storage (which helps the grid take onboard more intermittent renewables without the expensive new grid upgrades – so scares the encumbents) to distributed solutions (eg fancy new power-packs you can load with solar produced energy to fuel up your EV – thereby reducing fossil fuel usage & co2 emissions in what is by far the hardest sector to decarbonise – transport). This scares the oilcos, less innovative car manufacturers & your energy supplier. Seasonal storage (eg to store lots of solar gen produced in summer until the winter) is a tough one for a flat country in these northern climes, but I think you’ll find storage (even forgetting P2G & other variants) will pull more than its own weight in the years ahead.

There are, for example, already perfectly viable business models (on current storage pricing levels) for things like frequency response & other grid balancing services that can work without any subsidies (what is needed however are regulatory changes to the licensing regime). In other words, innovative renewable operators can store electricity produced from solar (let alone wind) - on this grey isle - & release it extremely quickly when needed to help balance the grid more cheaply than a CCGT can. DECC has already made a call for evidence & (new govt changes allowing) should have a starting position set later this year.

The problem, as always, will be the vested interests. But the new world of energy is a tsunami with a zillion different aspects to it, the oldcos either learn to ride some if its waves (as for example EON are doing) or they will be crushed on the ocean floor.

Don't forget the hamsters. Rumour has it that Fleeing Circularly have some spares, since they upgraded to an abacus. 8>.

Good job on the insulation (me too) .. now we can get mad when we get cold called about the new free government insulation scheme (which happens every few months it seems). I've taken to letting the blighters come and waste their time, discovering I already have 2x what HMG would allow them to put in. Aircon run backwards is a pretty useful heat source if all else fails (or I can incinerate trees).