smee
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Post by smee on Apr 29, 2014 9:47:43 GMT
Will there be the facility to de-list a loan part? A seller might want to do this if a sale takes a long time and interest is being lost. Also, will loan parts be sold on a FIFO basis?
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Post by savingstream on Apr 29, 2014 10:12:42 GMT
There won't be a facility to de-list a loan part, as a percentage of the loan part may have already been sold.
I can confirm parts will be sold with a FIFO policy. So if seller A sells a loan part for £1k in a loan and then seller B sells a loan part for £1k in the same loan. Seller A will receive the first £1k of investment in the £2k availability of this loan before seller B receives their capital return.
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alison
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Post by alison on Apr 29, 2014 10:22:40 GMT
There won't be a facility to de-list a loan part, as a percentage of the loan part may have already been sold. I can confirm parts will be sold with a FIFO policy. So if seller A sells a loan part for £1k in a loan and then seller B sells a loan part for £1k in the same loan. Seller A will receive the first £1k of investment in the £2k availability of this loan before seller B receives their capital return. So can you not allow delisting of a loan part provided no part of it has already been sold?
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smee
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Post by smee on Apr 29, 2014 10:25:45 GMT
Or delist the part remaining?
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Post by savingstream on Apr 29, 2014 10:28:29 GMT
We will consider adding this functionality to the system.
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taca
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Post by taca on Apr 29, 2014 10:41:32 GMT
The obvious fear here is that of having a loan part languishing on the SM neither selling nor earning interest. If a de-listing facility is out of the question, then another way of mitigating this may be to allow the selling of a specified sum rather than the whole part. For instance, I have a £1000 part in Property BL3 which I may be reluctant to place on the SM, because of the attendant risk, but if I could test the water with smaller chunks? Otherwise we're going to have this habit, seen on other platforms, of people putting a hundred £10 bids on a loan rather than a single £1000 bid, just to keep their SM options open. Whatever, I think SS needs to find some way of reducing the risk for sellers, if the SM is to be vibrant.
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Post by pepperpot on Apr 29, 2014 11:00:04 GMT
Predominantly I have been taking small multiple chunks of loans in preparation for a SM, but the ability to dissect your holding to place a small part up for sale would be ideal.
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j
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Post by j on Apr 29, 2014 12:37:11 GMT
Not wanting to throw names around but AC are able to calculate interest to the day a loan part was sold both for seller & buyer. Also, the facility of delisting a loan part is available. It would be a shame not to have these options available on SS considering that myself & others are starting to take positions on the platform & accumulating parts in your recent & upcoming loans. For me, the above would be a major factor in not investing on savingstream & pulling my money out...sorry!!
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Post by savingstream on Apr 29, 2014 12:55:04 GMT
Saving Stream does calculate interest to the day. The difference between SS's proposed system and AC's is that with AC it is a straight sale/purchase of a fixed value loan part between seller and buyer with a definitive date of sale. This is simple to calculate interest owed to seller and buyer. What we are proposing it to allow an investor to sell (for example) a £5,000 loan part and not have to wait for a single buyer who wants that size loan part, but the model to accept multiple buyers at different times in order to purchase that £5,000 availability until it has been taken up. This will result in a quicker sale time for the seller.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Apr 29, 2014 13:19:31 GMT
Following pepperpot 's comment, why not use the same facility as Funding Knight. There, f I have £1000 part, I can decide to sell £10 of it, or £50, or even £157.48 if I so decide. That way, a part seller can stagger the sales so that the last bit earns interest for longer ....or just sell the whole lot in £50 hunks which might might result in a quicker sale than a single £1000.
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j
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Post by j on Apr 29, 2014 15:55:40 GMT
Saving Stream does calculate interest to the day. The difference between SS's proposed system and AC's is that with AC it is a straight sale/purchase of a fixed value loan part between seller and buyer with a definitive date of sale. This is simple to calculate interest owed to seller and buyer. What we are proposing it to allow an investor to sell (for example) a £5,000 loan part and not have to wait for a single buyer who wants that size loan part, but the model to accept multiple buyers at different times in order to purchase that £5,000 availability until it has been taken up. This will result in a quicker sale time for the seller. Say I have a £500 investment in loan X, why not divide that into 5x£100 units & allow the lender to sell as many of these as desired. I think you'll lose a chunk of lender base who will want that flexibility. Again, I'm not trying to impose my thoughts or tell you what to do but, certain other platforms offer that flexibility. One can even buy & sell parts of the same loan many times over & have the interest worked out as such & also give lenders flexibility to increase/decrease as they wish depending on when their funds become available. I like SS so far so am not criticising in any way but, the greater the flexibility of the system the more attraction & use it will have for the platform
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 29, 2014 16:33:14 GMT
As a compromise, why can't initial investments be made in smaller pledges and kept that way, rather than being aggregated within the seller's dashboard? Isn't this the way it works now? I have invested in some boat loans a bit at a time, and my dashboard lists each part separately. So I presume that when the secondary market arrives I'll be able to sell the individual parts. Presuming that continues, lenders' reaction to the new SM will be to make a lot of £100 investments rather than fewer larger ones. As long as the SS system can cope with the increased number of parts, that would solve the problem going forward except for the largest lenders who might not wish to go through the awkwardness of, say, making 200 investments in order to lend £20k. A better solution would be for SS to accept larger investments but break them down into £100 chunks, either at the time of investment or when a lender wishes to make a sale. As for the issue of de-listing... Could this be solved by a lender buying back their own parts? (Buying some other lenders' parts if their parts aren't at the front of the queue wouldn't help, since additional cash would be required and interest on the listed parts would continue to be lost.) That doesn't solve the issue of interest lost while a part is listed for sale, but would allow lenders to change their minds.
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ramblin rose
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Post by ramblin rose on Apr 29, 2014 17:23:38 GMT
Following pepperpot 's comment, why not use the same facility as Funding Knight. There, f I have £1000 part, I can decide to sell £10 of it, or £50, or even £157.48 if I so decide. That way, a part seller can stagger the sales so that the last bit earns interest for longer ....or just sell the whole lot in £50 hunks which might might result in a quicker sale than a single £1000. In the interests of simplicity and simultaneous flexibility, this sounds like an excellent solution. A lender can keep their large loan part and just sell as much of it as they are prepared to risk lost interest on, as and when.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Apr 29, 2014 17:34:48 GMT
Isn't this the way it works now? I have invested in some boat loans a bit at a time, and my dashboard lists each part separately. So I presume that when the secondary market arrives I'll be able to sell the individual parts. I wasn't aware of that, mike, having only made investments in single, larger bids. Perhaps that might help, but I can see lenders dashboards being quickly and hugely elongated by £20 bids. It all seems to be a workaround, rather than addressing the actual issue. £20 bids aren't a worry -- the SS minimum bid is £100. But you're right about long dashboards. I have one of those, because of my multiple bids on various loans. I thought about minimising my number of bids when I saw that happening but, in fact, I didn't. And now I'm glad I didn't! A more elegant solution would be nice, but it's probably not critical. Until then, if lenders switched to £100 bids then the problem would be minimal for future loans. And six months from now there will be no current loans left. On balance, though, if the AC SM is anything to go by, the issue of lost interest while parts for sale are awaiting buyers will turn out to be a red herring. On the AC SM, with the exception of loans where underwriters have tens of thousands of pounds of parts to sell, any loan parts offered for sale generally are bought within minutes. If AC had the same policy regarding accrued interest as SS have proposed, sellers losing more than one day's interest would be a rarity. So my view would be that SS won't have a problem that needs fixing except for lenders who have parts denominated in thousands of pounds. For now, I would suggest that the SS SM starts up as proposed, while we and SS watch what actually happens, and we can see whether or not there's really a problem before anyone spends much time trying to design a fix.
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j
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Post by j on Apr 29, 2014 18:57:59 GMT
On a side note - not sure if SS are testing the system, or whether underwritten funds have been released, but an amount has become available to invest on an older loan (1995 S*******r C******e 55). NO they're not, just bought one unit!
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