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Post by chrisuk on Aug 3, 2016 12:02:41 GMT
I agree. The late repayments have always been a concern for me. I have been castigated on this forum in the past for expressing my concerns over late repayments. I was told it's to be expected with bridging loans and if I don't like it then I shouldn't invest!! I'm sorry, but if I lend someone money and they promise to pay me back within 12 months I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect repayment within 12 months!!
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Post by savingstream on Aug 3, 2016 12:12:49 GMT
Yes, no more "new" money invested from me until some of my older loans start repaying. We need to see a more balanced outcome of the loan book, some new ones launched BUT the older ones being repaid. SS appear to have an extremely relaxed approach to "live" loans, just allowing them to continue without asking the lenders. Perhaps we should have an FS or MT approach where at the listed loan end date, the loan is reposted with those that do not want to continue to participate being repaid with new lenders taking their place. James - we do not have a 'relaxed attitude' at all. We consider each loan renewal or increase very very carefully and try to find a balance between commerciality and risk. For every loan that we have extended or increased, there has been a better business case to do so rather than the only other remaining alternative - a default and forced sale. Why would we do that when there are better options for all parties? (Rhetorical q).
You give us the authority to make these decisions for over 1500 (on average) investors per loan, and most often than not, an extension (if fees and interest is paid) or increase (if the valuation and our policies support this) is the most appropriate option if our rigorous conditions are met.
We do not agree that enforcing on a loan to appease investors is necessarily the best business strategy. It would be morally objectionable towards our borrowers if this was our strategy and we refuse to consider it; we would also not get any lending business. Your investments are safe and secured against property assets in the UK which aren't going anywhere quickly. We have very conservative lending policies in place that mean we can afford not to liquidate as a primary strategy.
We have, twice now, chosen not to renew, extend or increase on some of our loans and formally declared a default whereby we have no choice but to seek enforcement of our security. The initial one was paid back within 3 months and sold at the price we valued it at. The garden centre, whilst significantly bigger, will not prove a problem and have had some serious offers not far off the valuation that we are considering and will report to investors when we have concrete news.
Coming to the point about 'news', 'updates' and 'repayment dates' we work closely from day 1 with all of our borrowers and their lawyers when appropriate. Very often, the repayments are in the hands of 3rd, 4th, Nth parties such as high street banks, cash buyers (we like these), investment houses, funds, trusts - all of whom need various boxes ticked by their 3rd, 4th parties such as valuers, credit committees, lawyers etc.
We try our best to make repayment dates as accurate as possible but very often they are out of our hands. We would love to give totally accurate repayments dates every time but it is impossible, and we agree it makes us look silly and gives the impression that we don't care (answer - we really really do) or are lackadaisical about repayments (answer - we are really really not). Here is a recent example, the hotel in Dover - there are actually 2 buyers trying to win the contract race at over £1.1m purchase price,but all valuers, lawyers, bank credit committees and accountants (to verify hotel income) have all variously been on holiday for the past 2 months. Getting anything done is soul crushingly frustrating. The security is absolutely fine, the demand for the property is astronomical, but getting all the myriad professionals to complete on the deal is generally where things get caught up and our initial repayment dates get pushed back.
It is our opinion, that even though we might loose credibility with you when releasing information about repayment dates that inevitably proves overly optimistic, we would rather do that than keep this information hidden from you. Despite the negativity and indignation, we are going to carry on releasing these 'expected repayment dates' and continue onwards by providing the best P2P experience possible.
Thanks for investing with Saving Stream.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Aug 3, 2016 12:36:33 GMT
Ah, good. SS is saying all the right things. I'll be watching carefully the progress in concluding all the loans which are currently overdue (any news on Swansea Hotel PBL040 re their imminent refinancing?) and soon to be due, and selecting carefully which loans I wish to hold to their repayment dates.
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Post by pepperpot on Aug 3, 2016 12:40:14 GMT
savingstream When 'expectations' aren't met it can cause disappointment. Maybe a change of wording to ' target repayment dates' or even ' possible repayment dates' would ease the negativity whilst still giving an indication of progression.
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Post by savingstream on Aug 3, 2016 12:44:14 GMT
Thats a good idea, thanks for the feedback.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Aug 3, 2016 16:39:02 GMT
When a loan is not repaid on time I suppose there are various scenarios
1) A fixed term extension is agreed and the borrower pays interest up front. In this case the end date should be changed.
2) A rolling extension is agreed and the borrower pays interest monthly. This should be made clear in the loan details.
3) The borrower is unable to repay or to pay any interest. SS decide that it in the best interests of all to give the borrower time to sell or get refinance. This should be made clear in the loan details.
4) The borrower is unable to repay or to pay any interest. SS decide that they have no option but to declare the loan in default.
There may be others which I have not thought of?
In cases 1) and 2) lenders are paid interest monthly with the funds coming from the borrower and there appears to me to be little additional risk in the loan. If I knew case 1) applied I might happily buy loan parts. In case 3) lenders are paid interest monthly with the funds coming from the platform. If I knew this to be the case it would reduce my confidence in the platform, depending on the size of the loan. In any case I would be unlikely to invest in loan parts.
If SS just let the loan go into -ve days without telling us which scenario applies I for one get concerned that it is in scenario 3) just waiting to go to 4). Take PBL036 for example at -251 days. Has SS received all or any interest for 8+ months?
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hantsowl
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Post by hantsowl on Aug 3, 2016 19:43:21 GMT
Agreed. It is good that SS put status updates for the loans rather than keeping us in the dark. All we ask is that when things are being delayed and falling behind schedule it would calm nerves if a few words of explanation were added to the update to show that the loan has no serious issues and still going as per plan.
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greeb
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Post by greeb on Aug 3, 2016 21:32:18 GMT
Greek finance minister used the phrase 'extend and pretend' and I do fear there is a risk of this going on. Detail comms from ss will better allow us to make our own minds up.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Aug 3, 2016 21:40:52 GMT
When a loan is not repaid on time I suppose there are various scenarios 1) A fixed term extension is agreed and the borrower pays interest up front. In this case the end date should be changed. 2) A rolling extension is agreed and the borrower pays interest monthly. This should be made clear in the loan details. 3) The borrower is unable to repay or to pay any interest. SS decide that it in the best interests of all to give the borrower time to sell or get refinance. This should be made clear in the loan details. 4) The borrower is unable to repay or to pay any interest. SS decide that they have no option but to declare the loan in default. There may be others which I have not thought of? In cases 1) and 2) lenders are paid interest monthly with the funds coming from the borrower and there appears to me to be little additional risk in the loan. If I knew case 1) applied I might happily buy loan parts. In case 3) lenders are paid interest monthly with the funds coming from the platform. If I knew this to be the case it would reduce my confidence in the platform, depending on the size of the loan. In any case I would be unlikely to invest in loan parts. If SS just let the loan go into -ve days without telling us which scenario applies I for one get concerned that it is in scenario 3) just waiting to go to 4). Take PBL036 for example at -251 days. Has SS received all or any interest for 8+ months? Good Post SS have told me in the past that when the loan is showing negative remaining term, then the borrower is sending rolling interest, and when these payments stop then the loan defaults. In which case Scenario 3 does not exist. Of course, they could be being economical with the truth.
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sam i am
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Post by sam i am on Aug 3, 2016 21:52:22 GMT
savingstream When 'expectations' aren't met it can cause disappointment. Maybe a change of wording to ' target repayment dates' or even ' possible repayment dates' would ease the negativity whilst still giving an indication of progression. , I very much agree with pepperpot that this is more about managing expectations and keeping investors informed. For example your information about the Dover Hotel was enlightening. However when it comes to the 'repayment date' I think it is vital for lenders to know the date to which interest has been paid. As you stated above loans are often extended or increased. In this case the loan has been revaluated and further interest has been paid. In this case the platform should be updated to reflect this (in particular the 'repayment date') and the position made clear. It would be useful if any substantiating information and documents (eg new valuations) are also added to the platform so that we can see the good work that you are doing behind the scenes. You have done this in some case, maybe many cases but there are certainly some where I'm not clear. I count eight loans with negative remaining terms currently on the site. These are the worrying ones. We know one is in default. But of the other seven it is not clear whether an extended term has been agreed or if interest is up to date via monthly payments. I believe you did inform us not too long ago that all interest payments were up to date with the possible exception of where you could see imminent loan repayments but this isn't clear on the platform. Just a bit more information and clarity would go a long way to improving investor confidence.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Aug 3, 2016 23:08:23 GMT
When a loan is not repaid on time I suppose there are various scenarios 1) A fixed term extension is agreed and the borrower pays interest up front. In this case the end date should be changed. 2) A rolling extension is agreed and the borrower pays interest monthly. This should be made clear in the loan details. 3) The borrower is unable to repay or to pay any interest. SS decide that it in the best interests of all to give the borrower time to sell or get refinance. This should be made clear in the loan details. 4) The borrower is unable to repay or to pay any interest. SS decide that they have no option but to declare the loan in default. There may be others which I have not thought of? In cases 1) and 2) lenders are paid interest monthly with the funds coming from the borrower and there appears to me to be little additional risk in the loan. If I knew case 1) applied I might happily buy loan parts. In case 3) lenders are paid interest monthly with the funds coming from the platform. If I knew this to be the case it would reduce my confidence in the platform, depending on the size of the loan. In any case I would be unlikely to invest in loan parts. If SS just let the loan go into -ve days without telling us which scenario applies I for one get concerned that it is in scenario 3) just waiting to go to 4). Take PBL036 for example at -251 days. Has SS received all or any interest for 8+ months? Good Post SS have told me in the past that when the loan is showing negative remaining term, then the borrower is sending rolling interest, and when these payments stop then the loan defaults. In which case Scenario 3 does not exist. Of course, they could be being economical with the truth.Perish the thought that SS might be anything but transparent with you.  To put your mind at rest they told me the same thing, several times (well actually not you as you already knew as weve posted said confirmation before) so for everyone else its a consistent line.
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littleoldlady
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Post by littleoldlady on Aug 4, 2016 9:01:19 GMT
When a loan is not repaid on time I suppose there are various scenarios 1) A fixed term extension is agreed and the borrower pays interest up front. In this case the end date should be changed. 2) A rolling extension is agreed and the borrower pays interest monthly. This should be made clear in the loan details. 3) The borrower is unable to repay or to pay any interest. SS decide that it in the best interests of all to give the borrower time to sell or get refinance. This should be made clear in the loan details. 4) The borrower is unable to repay or to pay any interest. SS decide that they have no option but to declare the loan in default. There may be others which I have not thought of? In cases 1) and 2) lenders are paid interest monthly with the funds coming from the borrower and there appears to me to be little additional risk in the loan. If I knew case 1) applied I might happily buy loan parts. In case 3) lenders are paid interest monthly with the funds coming from the platform. If I knew this to be the case it would reduce my confidence in the platform, depending on the size of the loan. In any case I would be unlikely to invest in loan parts. If SS just let the loan go into -ve days without telling us which scenario applies I for one get concerned that it is in scenario 3) just waiting to go to 4). Take PBL036 for example at -251 days. Has SS received all or any interest for 8+ months? Good Post SS have told me in the past that when the loan is showing negative remaining term, then the borrower is sending rolling interest, and when these payments stop then the loan defaults. In which case Scenario 3 does not exist. Of course, they could be being economical with the truth.SS say above: For every loan that we have extended or increased, there has been a better business case to do so rather than the only other remaining alternative - a default and forced sale. Why would we do that when there are better options for all parties? (Rhetorical q).
You give us the authority to make these decisionsThis suggests to me that when and if scenario 3 occurs they might give the borrower more time - and they well may be right to do so, but I would prefer to know. Ideally I would like the loan account published and maintained on line but I am not holding my breath.
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Post by geraldine1210 on Aug 4, 2016 10:29:24 GMT
I emailed ss about this loan going live.
Uo
I think they have forgotten sending an update about this loan.
Investors will remember thatcher lian was to hopefully go live early this month.
Now, they say it is in stage 3 but unlikely to go live his week.
They say investors will be told when it is ready to go live.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Aug 8, 2016 12:40:01 GMT
Just got the Go-Live e-mail...
This loan will be going live tomorrow (Tuesday - 09/08/2016).
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homes119
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Post by homes119 on Aug 8, 2016 12:48:13 GMT
Bottoms up or Percentage do you think? Well above the 1m border, so will be percentage allocation  The email indicates bottom-up allocation!
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To put your mind at rest they told me the same thing, several times (well actually not you as you already knew as weve posted said confirmation before) so for everyone else its a consistent line.
