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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jun 17, 2014 9:21:38 GMT
chris fyi horseshoe is showing prebids 125% It was at 128%, hopefully it'll fall to below 100% or there will be dreadful quarrel... which I'll just watch. IN EDIT I can't remember if this had any underwriting.
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Post by chris on Jun 17, 2014 12:51:25 GMT
If it has underwriting then it would show on the horseshoe before prebids are listed.
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Post by chris on Jun 17, 2014 12:53:10 GMT
chris fyi horseshoe is showing prebids 125% That's how many pre-bids there are... Not all will be fully funded necessarily so at the point at which the auction goes live they'll be resolved in the order they were placed and if there's anything left it will go to auction, if there isn't then it will close instantly and some people will miss out.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jun 17, 2014 13:54:01 GMT
chris fyi horseshoe is showing prebids 125% That's how many pre-bids there are... Not all will be fully funded necessarily so at the point at which the auction goes live they'll be resolved in the order they were placed and if there's anything left it will go to auction, if there isn't then it will close instantly and some people will miss out. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something about pre-bids & shadow bids etc, but if I check the order of bids on WSM (Weston S.M.) I see that I was that I was the third and fourth person to place bids, in other words I was almost first. When I check to see what my position with the prebids is I see that my highest position is 24th. I have deleted some or one bid but that was nowhere near the 'front'. So I'm unsure if reverting correctly preserves the queue. I'll paste a screen shot or attachment below chris if that helps at all? Sorry I spilled some blue ink on it... 
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Post by chris on Jun 17, 2014 14:02:52 GMT
Ton ⓉⓞⓃ - Shouldn't matter if it preserves the queue order or not. The loan can only ever be 100% full and you cannot increase the size of your prebids, even with AI. If you increase your holdings with AI then it will create new pre-bids just as if you wanted to do so manually. So even if every one of the pre-bids is fully funded you're still guaranteed to be included in the auction. AI can reduce the size of a pre-bid without changing your queue position which gives it a small advantage over manual bidders.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jun 17, 2014 14:35:42 GMT
Ton ⓉⓞⓃ - Shouldn't matter if it preserves the queue order or not. The loan can only ever be 100% full and you cannot increase the size of your prebids, even with AI. If you increase your holdings with AI then it will create new pre-bids just as if you wanted to do so manually. So even if every one of the pre-bids is fully funded you're still guaranteed to be included in the auction. AI can reduce the size of a pre-bid without changing your queue position which gives it a small advantage over manual bidders. I suppose what I'm trying to say and really failing to is, that if the order isn't fully preserved when the the Auction goes from one state to open or another state then those people who were in the first auction held in April (I think) may suddenly find they're not in it any more because those who had AI mandates converted to prebids (or from where ever the extra 28% came from) may now have taken their places. Sorry that's a very long sentence. Personally I'm not overly bothered about these issues with these two loans chris but for the sake of fairness others might.  What am I missing?
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Post by chris on Jun 17, 2014 14:46:31 GMT
Ton ⓉⓞⓃ - Shouldn't matter if it preserves the queue order or not. The loan can only ever be 100% full and you cannot increase the size of your prebids, even with AI. If you increase your holdings with AI then it will create new pre-bids just as if you wanted to do so manually. So even if every one of the pre-bids is fully funded you're still guaranteed to be included in the auction. AI can reduce the size of a pre-bid without changing your queue position which gives it a small advantage over manual bidders. I suppose what I'm trying to say and really failing to is, that if the order isn't fully preserved when the the Auction goes from one state to open another then those people who were in the first auction held in April (I think) may suddenly find they're not in it any more because those who had AI mandates converted to prebids (or from where ever the extra 28% came from) may now have taken their places. Sorry that's a very long sentence. Personally I'm not overly bothered about these issues with these two loans chris but for the sake of fairness others might. What am I missing? If the auction is closed but people set up AI to invest more, then once the auction is reverted to prebids the auction is effective open to AI to take action and prebids are placed. But this is after the conversion so the additional prebids will always be after any converted bids in the queue. If you had funds in the original auction then you should be guaranteed a pre-bid in a suitable position in the queue to make sure you'll get what you had previously bid in the new auction. The order up to the cut-off point shouldn't matter.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jun 17, 2014 15:04:30 GMT
I was third and fourth in the queue, now I'm 24th how do I know that the those extra 21people are not converted AI mandates? What about the person who placed the closing bid that topped off the loan to completion when it happened originally? Are you saying that they can't be pushed out of the first 100% by some of the new & extra 28%? Are you saying that none of the 28% will get converted to real bids but back to AI mandates? Assuming everything is fully funded. I feel like I'm really wasting your time on this chris, do forgive me. I'm mainly thinking about WSM and not this Dev. Loan but I imagine that this applies in all similar cases. |
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Post by chris on Jun 17, 2014 16:35:38 GMT
I was third and fourth in the queue, now I'm 24th how do I know that the those extra 21people are not converted AI mandates? What about the person who placed the closing bid that topped off the loan to completion when it happened originally? Are you saying that they can't be pushed out of the first 100% by some of the new & extra 28%? Are you saying that none of the 28% will get converted to real bids but back to AI mandates? Assuming everything is fully funded. I feel like I'm really wasting your time on this chris, do forgive me. I'm mainly thinking about WSM and not this Dev. Loan but I imagine that this applies in all similar cases. The conversion is an atomic operation in the database so it all happens, in effect, instantaneously and without AI being able to interrupt it. The glory of transactions.
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star dust
Member of DD Central
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Post by star dust on Jun 24, 2014 18:00:14 GMT
This loan has today been underwritten by 91.39% there are also pre-bids shown at 58.63%. Will underwritters take precedence over pre-bidders?
I put in a pre-bid when the loan unwound, and have left money in my account to cover this since pre-bids fell from the 128% to well below 100%, I'm not far off the end of the pre-bid Q though, so is it safe to assume that I won't get anything?
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Post by chris on Jun 24, 2014 18:14:39 GMT
This loan has today been underwritten by 91.39% there are also pre-bids shown at 58.63%. Will underwritters take precedence over pre-bidders? I put in a pre-bid when the loan unwound, and have left money in my account to cover this since pre-bids fell from the 128% to well below 100%, I'm not far off the end of the pre-bid Q though, so is it safe to assume that I won't get anything? No, underwriter bids are already placed and act as normal so when pre-bids are converted they'll knock out any excess from the underwriters.
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star dust
Member of DD Central
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Post by star dust on Jun 24, 2014 19:16:52 GMT
No, underwriter bids are already placed and act as normal so when pre-bids are converted they'll knock out any excess from the underwriters. Thanks Chris, good to know. I haven't been involved in anything so heavily underwritten before, and all the underwritten bids are dated today, so I thought they would push out the pre-bids.
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Post by chris on Jun 24, 2014 19:18:35 GMT
No, underwriter bids are already placed and act as normal so when pre-bids are converted they'll knock out any excess from the underwriters. Thanks Chris, good to know. I haven't been involved in anything so heavily underwritten before, and all the underwritten bids are dated today, so I thought they would push out the pre-bids. With our bidding system we have different priorities of bids, with underwriters sitting at the bottom of the pile and normal user bids sitting in the middle. So no matter when the bid is made underwriter bids will be knocked out before any other bid.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on Jun 24, 2014 22:06:17 GMT
Thanks Chris, good to know. I haven't been involved in anything so heavily underwritten before, and all the underwritten bids are dated today, so I thought they would push out the pre-bids. With our bidding system we have different priorities of bids, with underwriters sitting at the bottom of the pile and normal user bids sitting in the middle. So no matter when the bid is made underwriter bids will be knocked out before any other bid. So what's above normal bids, does the site still do high priority bids? When ever I've sat on an underwriter in the past they've never moved nor complained!
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Post by chris on Jun 25, 2014 7:57:32 GMT
With our bidding system we have different priorities of bids, with underwriters sitting at the bottom of the pile and normal user bids sitting in the middle. So no matter when the bid is made underwriter bids will be knocked out before any other bid. So what's above normal bids, does the site still do high priority bids? When ever I've sat on an underwriter in the past they've never moved nor complained! There have been a couple of loans where we've required the introducer to invest some of their money in the loan, e.g. 20% of the loan value. Those bids are given a high priority so that nothing can knock them out. Haven't had one of those for a while though but the flexibility is still there.
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