star dust
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Post by star dust on May 3, 2014 20:18:45 GMT
Am I being dumb - do all 'pre-bids' convert to 'user bids' at auction? AIUI all pre-bids are indeed converted to live bids just before the auction starts. Since AI pre-bids only have one chance to go on, if the money isn't there in the a/c when it checks the pre-bid dies, but AI then takes over 5 mins later and tries to put in live bids to get to your target while the auction's running, but obviously if the money still isn't in your a/c it can't put the bids in either, not until the money turns up that is. HTH But why there's a small number of prebids still apparently alive is a mystery, though I've seen it on other recent auctions Yeah my brain wasn't in gear - but thanks, that explains the automatic set up of AI. Think I'm slowly getting there.
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Post by pepperpot on May 3, 2014 20:22:50 GMT
Am I being dumb - do all 'pre-bids' convert to 'user bids' at auction? AIUI all pre-bids are indeed converted to live bids just before the auction starts. Since AI pre-bids only have one chance to go on, if the money isn't there in the a/c when it checks the pre-bid dies, but AI then takes over 5 mins later and tries to put in live bids to get to your target while the auction's running, but obviously if the money still isn't in your a/c it can't put the bids in either, not until the money turns up that is. HTH But why there's a small number of prebids still apparently alive is a mystery, though I've seen it on other recent auctions Pre-bids get converted at 5 to auction-o'clock, unless there is nothing to back it up with (funds in a/c or room in shadow a/c). Then it just sits there waiting until it can be converted, which is why some pre-bids still show.
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spockie
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Post by spockie on May 3, 2014 22:28:05 GMT
Sorry to bother you chris but I fairly certain I put in pre-bids for the auction of £200 in 20's and 40's for easy sale to others. But I see the system after enacting my pre-bids then chucked in all the rest of my money in my a/c too. AI seems to have thought that my target for investment was £637.41 I don't know how it came to that conclusion, I didn't put that figure in the target box, as far as I'm aware. Thanks In EDIT The security settings of my computer only allow a file and not a piccy It has happened to me too. I set my prebid at £200 It allocated me this and then raided my cash balance of £212.66 and turned this into a bid. chris? Yes, the same thing has happened to me too. The system has processed my pre-bid and then raided my entire cash balance too.
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acorn
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Post by acorn on May 3, 2014 22:44:52 GMT
Have checked again and had the target bid set for £40 but only had £20 available so didn't get any. So acorn I take it that means everything went okay, it's just that there was less money in your a/c than you thought for this auction? AI Activity record at 21.32, May 2 "increasing prebids in HBL by GBP20" This was my request. AI Activity record at 16.57 today states " Increasing prebids in loan by GBP20." Not me, guv! I didn't check my Assetz a/c until after I had seen this thread. When I realised my prebid had disappeared I manually placed my bid for £20 at 18.23. I wasn't on-line at 16.57 but that is the time AI would have been processing prebids. It looks like it upped my prebid instead of converting it to a bid but that is out of step with the problems others are reporting.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on May 4, 2014 7:59:10 GMT
What I think has happened is that AI has remembered my earlier pre-bids that I deleted. AI somehow seems to have set the Target figure for this loan at £637.41 I appears to've arrived at this number by: My new prebids + My deleted prebids + My a/c balance = AI Target Going thru' the bids on the auction page it seems to have happened to several people, but I can only see three who appear on this board. chris for me there's no big hurry to look into this, clearly I don't know others situation. |
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spockie
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Post by spockie on May 4, 2014 8:14:02 GMT
I didn't delete any pre-bids. For me the AI target that has mysteriously been set is pre-bid + (pre-bid + remaining account balance). My actual bids on the auction are short of my target by the amount of my pre-bid therefore. I have nothing in my account and am reluctant to transfer anything over as I don't trust the auto invest on this auction as it seems able to set itself with no input from me. I keep money in my account to pick up loan parts on the AM. Everybody is entitled to their weekend off, but I'd appreciate if this could be looked at first thing on Tuesday morning, and if the rest of you wouldn't mind not selling any loan parts for the next 48 hours that would be great!  |
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acorn
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Post by acorn on May 4, 2014 9:27:07 GMT
I think AI may have remembered a deleted prebid for me, too, as I was fiddling around to see how it worked whilst waiting for money to arrive. I have more money in transit, so Tuesday might prove interesting as I fiddled with more than one loan. I guess a few people might want to reach for the AI "off" button Chris hasn't built yet...the joys of real time site development  . On the plus side, now that the cash-back event is over and people are off-loading some of their purchases, AI would have filled some of my requests yesterday had there been funding in place. Hope Tuesday doesn't get too scary.... |
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Post by chris on May 4, 2014 9:37:54 GMT
There has been as specific issue with this loan that I’ve tracked down and fixed. When a user manually places a bid, pre-bid or shadow bid and they have an active user instruction then the system updates their target total to match the value of their new bid / pre-bid / shadow bid. For example if someone sets a target of £200 for auto invest, which bids out those funds, and then manually places a bid of £100, if we did nothing then the system would immediately set about trying to sell that £100 as soon as it is able within the rules of the site. So in this scenario the target would be automatically updated to be £300 - the £200 the system was instructed to invest plus the additional £100 that has been manually invested. The bug in this instance involved the conversion of pre-bids to real bids where the system was not flagging that the new bids being placed at the start of the loan were being placed automatically rather than manually, so the target was being updated. A £200 pre-bid would have been converted to a £200 bid and then the target updated to £400, so another £200 pre-bid would have been placed. A minute later that £200 would have converted into another bid and the target updated again, etc. This would only have happened during the 5 minute window before the launch of the loan, only whilst funds allowed the pre-bids to be converted, and only once per minute at most. I have updated the system to correctly flag pre-bids that convert to bids as being automatic so the target is not increased. I have also disabled all mandates set by users before this time that have not been manually updated since to give them a chance to correct them. The other issue that star dust raised in another thread was that when they have a pre-bid and need cleared funds on the system in order for it to convert into a bid, if they have mandates set up elsewhere they will invest those funds as soon as they are able, potentially causing the pre-bid to fail to convert. I’ve made another change so that the system now takes unfulfilled pre-bids into account so that it will not invest those funds elsewhere. If you have a £250 balance, £100 of pre-bids, and instruct the system to buy £300 of loan units in the aftermarket it will only invest £150 until more funds become available thus keeping £100 back as available cash for the settlement of the pre-bid. |
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mike
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Post by mike on May 4, 2014 9:43:16 GMT
Chris,
I've just sent this mail to Assetz. Does your above status cover this?
I have a problem with a bid made through Auto Invest. First of all my account is XXXXXXX.
The loan is Hertfordshire Bridging. I put a mandate for £500 as a pre-bid which was accepted.
This was converted to a bid 5 mins before the auction opened as expected. However at the same time
Auto Invest increased the total by another £500 to leave the total at £1000. Funds were transferred out of my cash
balance to reflect this. When I checked the Auto Invest window for the loan last night the target investment was at £1000.
As I write this email it is now set at £0 (zero). I have changed it myself back to £500.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on May 4, 2014 10:03:21 GMT
snip> The other issue that star dust raised in another thread was that when they have a pre-bid and need cleared funds on the system in order for it to convert into a bid, if they have mandates set up elsewhere they will invest those funds as soon as they are able, potentially causing the pre-bid to fail to convert. I’ve made another change so that the system now takes unfulfilled pre-bids into account so that it will not invest those funds elsewhere. If you have a £250 balance, £100 of pre-bids, and instruct the system to buy £300 of loan units in the aftermarket it will only invest £150 until more funds become available thus keeping £100 back as available cash for the settlement of the pre-bid. Thanks for this Chris, as a new user this was my first pre-bid which I found a bit confusing to set up, but got some help from everyone here. Fortunately my bid was successful and straight forward, but glad to know next time the process will be much easier. Like Mike however, I have just logged in and seen that my auto invest on this loan has been automatically set to zero. I was wondering what best to do, untick all advanced boxes, increase amount to pre-bid amount, and/or only tick prebid box or leave well alone? I want to achieve the status quo for the time being.
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mike
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Post by mike on May 4, 2014 10:07:16 GMT
In addition Chris I am now left with Auto Invest set at £500 but accepted bids at £1000. Can I get my £500 "back" before drawdown?
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Post by chris on May 4, 2014 10:14:40 GMT
In addition Chris I am now left with Auto Invest set at £500 but accepted bids at £1000. Can I get my £500 "back" before drawdown? Mike, the issue is as I've described above. I presume you are one of the 30 odd users potentially affected. The target was set back to zero as I disabled Auto-Invest for you so that you could review what you wanted the target to be. It was inactive rather than active and set to target £0. If you speak to the admin team they'll free up your bid for you.
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mike
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Post by mike on May 4, 2014 10:19:40 GMT
Thanks Chris will do.
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Post by chris on May 4, 2014 10:19:53 GMT
Sounds like AI is usability-wise incomparable with manual actions. It would be better if making pre-bid, bids, sales, etc should automatically cancel any AI instruction. We did consider that approach but decided internally that adjusting the target would be the more appropriate action. With cancellation of AI instructions this is also confusing if you don't realise it will happen. Imagine having a £5,000 instruction on loan A as you know another loan is about to repay freeing up funds, but AI doesn't invest your current cash balance because of pre-bids you've placed elsewhere. Should you choose to manually buy a couple of loan units in loan A should it then cancel your instruction behind the scenes? I can see it being argued either way, so perhaps we need a poll on here or we need to make it user configurable.
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spockie
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Post by spockie on May 4, 2014 10:28:41 GMT
There has been as specific issue with this loan that I’ve tracked down and fixed. When a user manually places a bid, pre-bid or shadow bid and they have an active user instruction then the system updates their target total to match the value of their new bid / pre-bid / shadow bid. For example if someone sets a target of £200 for auto invest, which bids out those funds, and then manually places a bid of £100, if we did nothing then the system would immediately set about trying to sell that £100 as soon as it is able within the rules of the site. So in this scenario the target would be automatically updated to be £300 - the £200 the system was instructed to invest plus the additional £100 that has been manually invested. The bug in this instance involved the conversion of pre-bids to real bids where the system was not flagging that the new bids being placed at the start of the loan were being placed automatically rather than manually, so the target was being updated. A £200 pre-bid would have been converted to a £200 bid and then the target updated to £400, so another £200 pre-bid would have been placed. A minute later that £200 would have converted into another bid and the target updated again, etc. This would only have happened during the 5 minute window before the launch of the loan, only whilst funds allowed the pre-bids to be converted, and only once per minute at most. I have updated the system to correctly flag pre-bids that convert to bids as being automatic so the target is not increased. I have also disabled all mandates set by users before this time that have not been manually updated since to give them a chance to correct them. The other issue that star dust raised in another thread was that when they have a pre-bid and need cleared funds on the system in order for it to convert into a bid, if they have mandates set up elsewhere they will invest those funds as soon as they are able, potentially causing the pre-bid to fail to convert. I’ve made another change so that the system now takes unfulfilled pre-bids into account so that it will not invest those funds elsewhere. If you have a £250 balance, £100 of pre-bids, and instruct the system to buy £300 of loan units in the aftermarket it will only invest £150 until more funds become available thus keeping £100 back as available cash for the settlement of the pre-bid. I think there is a perhaps a second problem as well, as there are several of us where the target bid on AI is not a multiple of our original pre-bid and is a sum that bears a direct relationship to our cash balance. My target was set as my pre-bid x 2 plus my cash balance, so it is a bizarre amount, not a nicely rounded figure. i have had a reply from Mark Wardrop to an email promising that affected accounts will be looked at first thing on Tuesday morning, so hopefully we will all be refunded without having to contact the admin team individually. The swift reply was appreciated, given that it is a weekend.
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