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Post by chris on May 4, 2014 10:33:13 GMT
I think there is a perhaps a second problem as well, as there are several of us where the target bid on AI is not a multiple of our original pre-bid and is a sum that bears a direct relationship to our cash balance. My target was set as my pre-bid x 2 plus my cash balance, so it is a bizarre amount, not a nicely rounded figure. i have had a reply from Mark Wardrop to an email promising that affected accounts will be looked at first thing on Tuesday morning, so hopefully we will all be refunded without having to contact the admin team individually. The swift reply was appreciated, given that it is a weekend. This is the same issue - you cash balance limits the size of pre-bid that can be converted into a bid, and it's the size of the successful bid that was added to your target rather than the size of the pre-bid. Hence it correlating to the size of your cash balance.
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TFTO
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Post by TFTO on May 4, 2014 14:20:06 GMT
I think there is a perhaps a second problem as well, as there are several of us where the target bid on AI is not a multiple of our original pre-bid and is a sum that bears a direct relationship to our cash balance. My target was set as my pre-bid x 2 plus my cash balance, so it is a bizarre amount, not a nicely rounded figure. i have had a reply from Mark Wardrop to an email promising that affected accounts will be looked at first thing on Tuesday morning, so hopefully we will all be refunded without having to contact the admin team individually. The swift reply was appreciated, given that it is a weekend. This is the same issue - you cash balance limits the size of pre-bid that can be converted into a bid, and it's the size of the successful bid that was added to your target rather than the size of the pre-bid. Hence it correlating to the size of your cash balance. Chris, Any chance of having a flag set with AI turned off? I am unlikely to use the feature and have already sent an email regarding this loan and it taking money out of my account to satisfy pre-bids due to the system automatically applying an AI. I would prefer how it worked before AI where if you had no funds in your account the system ignore any pre-bids. Chris.
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Post by chris on May 4, 2014 14:32:09 GMT
If you don't use AI then any pre-bids that are manually placed will operate as they used to do except that the system only tries once, 5 minutes before the start of the auction, to convert them into a bid. Previously it would re-check every hour to see if funds had cleared, but AI fills that purpose now.
Other than answering that I'm not sure what you were referring to in the rest of your post. If you didn't use AI then the pre-bidding system would not have created an AI instruction for you. If you believe otherwise then please let me know so that I can pull up the history of your account and check if this could have occurred.
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Post by Ton ⓉⓞⓃ on May 4, 2014 16:05:16 GMT
This is the same issue - you cash balance limits the size of pre-bid that can be converted into a bid, and it's the size of the successful bid that was added to your target rather than the size of the pre-bid. Hence it correlating to the size of your cash balance. Chris, Any chance of having a flag set with AI turned off? I am unlikely to use the feature and have already sent an email regarding this loan and it taking money out of my account to satisfy pre-bids due to the system automatically applying an AI. I would prefer how it worked before AI where if you had no funds in your account the system ignore any pre-bids. Chris. Perhaps I'm wrong but if you use the bid button tab that's automatically behind the AI bid display you are side stepping AI and bidding manually (though I think AI still tracks what you're doing in case you go back to it...). Tho' I think it would be nice if we could set which appeared on top rather then the default AI on top. I think AC are seriously considering giving us several different accounts for the cash to sit in, if this happens I imagine I imagine it might get round your second concern, but I don't know for certain. IN EDIT Cross posts with Chris
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star dust
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Post by star dust on May 4, 2014 17:35:51 GMT
If you don't use AI then any pre-bids that are manually placed will operate as they used to do except that the system only tries once, 5 minutes before the start of the auction, to convert them into a bid. Previously it would re-check every hour to see if funds had cleared, but AI fills that purpose now. Other than answering that I'm not sure what you were referring to in the rest of your post. If you didn't use AI then the pre-bidding system would not have created an AI instruction for you. If you believe otherwise then please let me know so that I can pull up the history of your account and check if this could have occurred. As noted before, I'm new here and this was my first pre-bid, so I may be barking up the wrong tree. However as far as I observed I placed a manual pre-bid and there was a box showing me where I was in the Q, but on auction day an AI box was, as larkingcj also observed, set up by your systems. Today the AI box is still there but the total amount had reverted from my prebid amount to £0 which I think was part of the re-set you were referring to in an earlier post. I note now however, that I do not seem to have an ability to delete the AI associated with this loan unlike on all the other AIs that I set up myself. I don't know if this is because the loan is not 'live' or because ACs system set the thing up. Personally I'd quite like to be able to delete it on this occasion.
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TFTO
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Post by TFTO on May 4, 2014 17:40:48 GMT
If you don't use AI then any pre-bids that are manually placed will operate as they used to do except that the system only tries once, 5 minutes before the start of the auction, to convert them into a bid. Previously it would re-check every hour to see if funds had cleared, but AI fills that purpose now. Other than answering that I'm not sure what you were referring to in the rest of your post. If you didn't use AI then the pre-bidding system would not have created an AI instruction for you. If you believe otherwise then please let me know so that I can pull up the history of your account and check if this could have occurred. As noted before, I'm new here and this was my first pre-bid, so I may be barking up the wrong tree. However as far as I observed I placed a manual pre-bid and there was a box showing me where I was in the Q, but on auction day an AI box was, as larkingcj also observed, set up by your systems. Today the AI box is still there but the total amount had reverted from my prebid amount to £0 which I think was part of the re-set you were referring to in an earlier post. I note now however, that I do not seem to have an ability to delete the AI associated with this loan unlike on all the other AIs that I set up myself. I don't know if this is because the loan is not 'live' or because ACs system set the thing up. Personally I'd quite like to be able to delete it on this occasion. Yes, that is pretty much as I see it. An AI was created by the system, not by me.
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TFTO
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Post by TFTO on May 4, 2014 17:44:33 GMT
If you don't use AI then any pre-bids that are manually placed will operate as they used to do except that the system only tries once, 5 minutes before the start of the auction, to convert them into a bid. Previously it would re-check every hour to see if funds had cleared, but AI fills that purpose now. Other than answering that I'm not sure what you were referring to in the rest of your post. If you didn't use AI then the pre-bidding system would not have created an AI instruction for you. If you believe otherwise then please let me know so that I can pull up the history of your account and check if this could have occurred. I did not use AI prior to this loan although I have had to use it to get back to my pre-bid position - not what I wanted to do. I would just like to see the AI tab removed if I don't want to use it.
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Post by chris on May 4, 2014 17:45:48 GMT
Guys, can you make sure the AI is actually active. Due to a user request the input box now defaults to your current level of investment, however that may be confusing you as it looks like a target has been set.
If the button below the input field is green and says "Set New Target" then AI is *not* active and has not been set up by us. If it is blue and says "Update Target" then you have an active AI mandate.
In hindsight now that the target is being prefilled it needs to be more obvious when AI is set and running. I'll fire this over to the UX team to get them to work on making it clearer. In the meantime could you confirm that the button is green and says "Set New Target".
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TFTO
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Post by TFTO on May 4, 2014 17:58:04 GMT
Guys, can you make sure the AI is actually active. Due to a user request the input box now defaults to your current level of investment, however that may be confusing you as it looks like a target has been set. If the button below the input field is green and says "Set New Target" then AI is *not* active and has not been set up by us. If it is blue and says "Update Target" then you have an active AI mandate. In hindsight now that the target is being prefilled it needs to be more obvious when AI is set and running. I'll fire this over to the UX team to get them to work on making it clearer. In the meantime could you confirm that the button is green and says "Set New Target". I have just checked and mine is blue and says "Update Target" but that's because this morning I attempted to change it back to my pre-bid position of £1,000 - it was showing £825 when system generated yesterday. It is now showing £1,164.73 after I placed two manual bids this morning totalling £164.73 and AI decided to increase my Target Investment by this amount - I assume the same problem others have seen.
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Post by chris on May 4, 2014 18:56:39 GMT
Guys, can you make sure the AI is actually active. Due to a user request the input box now defaults to your current level of investment, however that may be confusing you as it looks like a target has been set. If the button below the input field is green and says "Set New Target" then AI is *not* active and has not been set up by us. If it is blue and says "Update Target" then you have an active AI mandate. In hindsight now that the target is being prefilled it needs to be more obvious when AI is set and running. I'll fire this over to the UX team to get them to work on making it clearer. In the meantime could you confirm that the button is green and says "Set New Target". I have just checked and mine is blue and says "Update Target" but that's because this morning I attempted to change it back to my pre-bid position of £1,000 - it was showing £825 when system generated yesterday. It is now showing £1,164.73 after I placed two manual bids this morning totalling £164.73 and AI decided to increase my Target Investment by this amount - I assume the same problem others have seen. I can see from the logs that your AI instruction was first created at 22:21 on the 3rd, after the start of the auction. At that time the system calculated that you held total bids of £835.27 and that your entered target of £0 should result in reduction of your current exposure but that due to being in auction there were no options for doing so. I can also see that you had 10 pre-bids placed prior to the start of the auction. 7 of these converted using shadow bids, one converted using both shadow and normal bids, and the 9th was partially converted using your cash balance. The 10th failed to convert due to lack of available funds. These pre-bids were placed between 16:27 and 16:28 on the 2nd May, and converted into bids at 16:55:02 on the 3rd. I can see no correlation between these events and you having an auto-invest mandate set up. At 09:09:12 on the 4th you changed the target to be £1,000. The system did not place a further bid, I'd need to dig a little further as to why. At 09:12:50 and :57 you placed two further manual bids that increased your holdings to £1000, however as these were manually placed they updated your AI total by adding on the total amount bid. This is where you got the £1,164.73 from. From a usability point of view I'm tempted to make two recommendations to the business: AI is disabled if there is any manual activity on a given loan. We add a new control panel where some preferences can be made, including hiding AI from the user interface completely. The first point is easy to implement and would take around 10 minutes, but I need buy in from the rest of the team as there are bound to be complaints from lenders who feel they've missed out on an opportunity as they didn't realise they'd inadvertently disabled auto-invest. The second would be a longer term project and would probably be incorporated into the complete review of the UX that we're currently undertaking.
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merlin
Minor shareholder in Assetz and many other companies.
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Post by merlin on May 4, 2014 20:38:47 GMT
Chris. Remember what I said about KISS. The complications now emerging with AI are probably only the tip of the iceberg. Time for the AC team to consider just how much management time and your time is getting burnt-up trying to fix this problem when you could be doing much more productive things!! KISS, KISS, KISS!!!
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star dust
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Post by star dust on May 4, 2014 21:06:59 GMT
Guys, can you make sure the AI is actually active. Due to a user request the input box now defaults to your current level of investment, however that may be confusing you as it looks like a target has been set. If the button below the input field is green and says "Set New Target" then AI is *not* active and has not been set up by us. If it is blue and says "Update Target" then you have an active AI mandate. In hindsight now that the target is being prefilled it needs to be more obvious when AI is set and running. I'll fire this over to the UX team to get them to work on making it clearer. In the meantime could you confirm that the button is green and says "Set New Target". I have just checked and mine is blue and says "Update Target" but that's because this afternoon when I checked it had (nothing to do with me) set itself to £0 (from appearing with my pre-bid figure yesterday) and I was afraid if I left it that it might decide to sell my units, so I unchecked all the advanced tab tick boxes and saved it. I am certain I did not set AI up for this loan, and in any event I don't seem able to delete it which right now I would like to do. Overall it seems that AI will be a useful function and I have set it up manually for the loans I would like to buy parts of and the ones that I bought manually too (thinks did I set this up or did the system?) but I would hope that it doesn't get set up automatically on any future bids I make and that it is always a deletable function. Just my two pennies worth! .......and yes, a goodnight KISS !!!!
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Post by gingergent on May 5, 2014 8:58:23 GMT
Chris. Remember what I said about KISS. The complications now emerging with AI are probably only the tip of the iceberg. Time for the AC team to consider just how much management time and your time is getting burnt-up trying to fix this problem when you could be doing much more productive things!! KISS, KISS, KISS!!! I must say I agree. I've not yet used AI for two reasons: on existing loans I have the exposure I want from the primary market (and can't be bothered to trawl everything before I joined 'in case'), and on new loans I don't want to run the risk of it doing something unexpected. It seems there are 2 options with something like AI: 1 - I want to do X ("buy £10") 2 - I want to achieve X ("own £20") The first is far more obvious from a user and single-loan perspective, whilst the second is probably far more flexible at a portfolio management level (Phase 2?). It sounds like a lot of people are getting confused because they want 1 but AI is 2 - and it then makes interesting choices about how to interpret manual actions (rather than ask the user). I'd prefer 1 with a popup warning that AI is being disabled on the loan if I do something manual. Or just to disable AI completely so I don't have to keep remembering to pick the bid tab.
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mike
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Post by mike on May 5, 2014 9:41:10 GMT
I like the AI function. What would be useful though would be user guidelines as a reference.
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Post by chris on May 5, 2014 11:40:22 GMT
Chris. Remember what I said about KISS. The complications now emerging with AI are probably only the tip of the iceberg. Time for the AC team to consider just how much management time and your time is getting burnt-up trying to fix this problem when you could be doing much more productive things!! KISS, KISS, KISS!!! I must say I agree. I've not yet used AI for two reasons: on existing loans I have the exposure I want from the primary market (and can't be bothered to trawl everything before I joined 'in case'), and on new loans I don't want to run the risk of it doing something unexpected. It seems there are 2 options with something like AI: 1 - I want to do X ("buy £10") 2 - I want to achieve X ("own £20") The first is far more obvious from a user and single-loan perspective, whilst the second is probably far more flexible at a portfolio management level (Phase 2?). It sounds like a lot of people are getting confused because they want 1 but AI is 2 - and it then makes interesting choices about how to interpret manual actions (rather than ask the user). I'd prefer 1 with a popup warning that AI is being disabled on the loan if I do something manual. Or just to disable AI completely so I don't have to keep remembering to pick the bid tab. With option 1 you'd need to supply two things though - the action you want the system to take and the amount. With 2 you just supply the total amount and the system works out what the action should be. This is also part of a much larger system currently in development and whatever we do now has to fit within that wider context. KISS also means different things to different people. What makes more sense to a new user with no experience of peer to peer lending is not going to be identical to an experienced lender or an institution, and we're trying to cater to all. We can go down the route of offering different interfaces to different people with different functions, and that is probably something we'll need to do, but we're also keen to offer all tools to all users who want them. That necessitates some complexity unfortunately. It's important for all of us, myself included, to remember that KISS does not equate personal preference.
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