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Post by smrutib on Dec 2, 2015 16:35:33 GMT
stevet, ablender, pom - thanks for the ideas. Ideally I would have liked to avoid going down that route but hey who said it was an ideal world  ablender, I was just using 10K as an example. I am not really putting 10K in SS. |
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niceguy37
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Post by niceguy37 on Dec 2, 2015 16:41:37 GMT
SS has no incentive to fix this issue. As they have repeatedly stated (and is obvious from market action), investor demand far outstrips supply. It doesn't matter if the demand is coming from bots or fast fingered dedicated investors. So why make changes that will make the life of new investors better? Especially when any change will leave a subset of investors unhappy. If supply starts to catch up with demand, this problem will go away on its own. Since I am not one of the lucky few early adopters, there is no way I can build a diversified portfolio on this platform without spending an unhealthy amount of time on it. I respectfully disagree that SS has no incentive to fix this. I admit that SS do not directly benefit from SM sales, but a large happy and diversified lending base is a definite benefit to the platform operations. IF SS introduced some sort of short-term rationing (e.g. limiting each lender to say £50 of each loan on the secondary market in the first 10 minutes of it being up for sale) the platform as a whole would benefit with greater diversity for lenders, probably increasing lender demand, and meaning that SS need less in cash-back offers that are sometimes needed to fund larger loans.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 2, 2015 16:54:20 GMT
I think SS is digging in on this. Do I detect a change of tone towards lenders since the new site was launched? We now get an email such as the one shown below, telling us that a new loan has been launched (but not adding the information that it is fully funded) and that there may be "significant secondary market acitivity" .... but not mentioning that it works in such a way that success in investing in loan parts as they become available is a rarity, and very time consuming. Not helpful communication. However, that is what many platforms call "improvement", and I can still play the "game" of overbidding in advance to get a reasonable piece of new loans, rather than telling SS what I actually want, and hoping to get close. Attachments:
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Dec 2, 2015 17:18:13 GMT
SS has no incentive to fix this issue. As they have repeatedly stated (and is obvious from market action), investor demand far outstrips supply. It doesn't matter if the demand is coming from bots or fast fingered dedicated investors. So why make changes that will make the life of new investors better? Especially when any change will leave a subset of investors unhappy. If supply starts to catch up with demand, this problem will go away on its own. Since I am not one of the lucky few early adopters, there is no way I can build a diversified portfolio on this platform without spending an unhealthy amount of time on it. I respectfully disagree that SS has no incentive to fix this. I admit that SS do not directly benefit from SM sales, but a large happy and diversified lending base is a definite benefit to the platform operations. IF SS introduced some sort of short-term rationing (e.g. limiting each lender to say £50 of each loan on the secondary market in the first 10 minutes of it being up for sale) the platform as a whole would benefit with greater diversity for lenders, probably increasing lender demand, and meaning that SS need less in cash-back offers that are sometimes needed to fund larger loans. Now that is something that I might agree to in principle. The exact amount and duration might be adjusted as necessary.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 2, 2015 17:40:13 GMT
I think the SM is working just fine..... Buying on the SM is easy if you understand the rules and are prepared to work hard at it..... Both those statements are probably true. OK, it's me, not prepared to actually sit for hours, eyes fixed on the screen, finger poised for attack, bidding very quickly for every loan part as it appears, getting nothing nineteen times out of twenty. Those are the rules .... Mmmm! 20+ loans over a month ... well done, John! I've got bananas to eat and pints to drink. 
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 2, 2015 18:10:33 GMT
Just today, whenever I've logged in, there's been a huge amount of stuff available. Seriously? Whenever I've looked today, there's been nothing available - except on one or two occasions, when hitting F5 eventually sees something pop up then dip to zero almost immediately. On the one occasion I clicked on a loan with some parts available, it zeroed before I got the chance to highlight the box for the purchase size, let alone type anything in there - and forget clicking the button...
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Post by uncletone on Dec 2, 2015 18:19:17 GMT
... when hitting F5 eventually sees something pop up then dip to zero almost immediately. You no longer have to refresh the screen, it is now self-refreshing when a loan part comes up for sale. You will of course be too late to do anything about it, but I find it can have the same hypnotic relaxing effect of coarse fishing. Without the clumsy necessity of having a keepnet.
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mikes1531
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Post by mikes1531 on Dec 2, 2015 18:29:53 GMT
There were numerous occasions this morning when a loan part became available and I could see that small amounts of it were bought in succession. For those who allege bots are in operation how do you explain this? - That the bots are very choosy? : If I were writing a 'bot -- and I'm not because I don't have a clue how to do that -- I'd program it to buy the loans I want to buy and ignore those loans I don't want more of. So, yes, I'd expect a 'bot to be choosy. £20k of PBL020 appeared on the SM at 1801 this evening. It took a full two minutes to disappear, and repeated refreshes of the page showed the amount available going down in chunks. The Investor Activity tab of that loan shows purchases today of £10k, £5k, £1500, £1000, £856, £200, £66, and smaller bits. I'd be surprised if the larger purchases came from 'bots because what I saw showed some of the smaller chunks went first. I offered some parts of that loan for sale in the wee hours of this morning, and they definitely didn't go instantly. In fact, sometimes they sat there being ignored for so long -- possibly as much as half an hour -- that I began wondering whether they were going to sell at all. In the end they all did, but it was a bit concerning. So if there are 'bots, they definitely are choosy -- but I'd expect that.
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webwiz
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Post by webwiz on Dec 2, 2015 18:30:25 GMT
Just today, whenever I've logged in, there's been a huge amount of stuff available. What? Just what site are you logging on to? BTW you don't need to log in to see available loans.
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adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Dec 2, 2015 18:33:51 GMT
You no longer have to refresh the screen, it is now self-refreshing when a loan part comes up for sale. I've never yet seen a loan appear via auto-refresh. I've seen them zero, and I've seen them disappear. But they've only ever appeared on a manual refresh for me. Chromium and Firefox on Ubuntu, Safari and Firefox on Mac.
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Post by highlandtiger on Dec 2, 2015 18:34:43 GMT
It is our opinion that the ability to diversify your portfolio through the purchase of loan parts that become available on the secondary market is of secondary importance to that of having a liquid mechanism with which to divest oneself quickly if necessary. At the moment demand is outstripping supply. It is as simple as that. I couldn't agree more. ......spot on. I'd rather increase my loan holding through the pre funding pipeline system, than picking up old loans. Ilove the fact that if I want to cash in some loans, I only have to wait a few seconds. What would people rather do, wait several days? People claim the site is full of "bots" but no-one can prove it.......but everyone can jump on the bandwagon. I can remember a month or so ago when there were plenty of new loans going up, and guess what, there were plenty of stuff to be had on the SM. I know because I picked a load up. No-one was moaning about bots hoovering it all up then. SS are right, it's simply down to demand outstripping supply..........
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Post by GSV3MIaC on Dec 2, 2015 18:43:39 GMT
But SS (and you) seem to have INCORRECTLY assumed that this is an either/or.
It is quite possible to have a really liquid SM without the current 'everything sold before you can look at it' approach. Having 'prefunding' system (like AC, only saner) where you say what you want (place a 'buy order', if you will) and go away, leaving it to get purchased when available, does NOT damage liquidity one little bit ... probably the reverse. The current system is annoying to the point where I won't be loading any more money in (which will help the rest of you), since I'm not prepared to sit at a screen at midnight to get a sniff of an investment, which is what it appears to take. I suppose I could write a buy-bot, but I'd prefer SS to fix it for everyone, not just fix it for myself.
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star dust
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Post by star dust on Dec 2, 2015 18:45:51 GMT
BTW you don't need to log in to see available loans. Indeed you don't, but you'd have a flying pig's chance of buying one if you weren't.
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Post by uncletone on Dec 2, 2015 18:51:37 GMT
I've never yet seen a loan appear via auto-refresh. I've seen them zero, and I've seen them disappear. But they've only ever appeared on a manual refresh for me. Chromium and Firefox on Ubuntu, Safari and Firefox on Mac. Honest, Guv. Firefox 42.0 on Mac OSX 10.11.1.
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oldgrumpy
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Post by oldgrumpy on Dec 2, 2015 19:01:42 GMT
I've never yet seen a loan appear via auto-refresh. I've seen them zero, and I've seen them disappear. But they've only ever appeared on a manual refresh for me. Chromium and Firefox on Ubuntu, Safari and Firefox on Mac. Honest, Guv. Firefox 42.0 on Mac OSX 10.11.1. I see them. One click on the loan within half a second to see what's available, and whatever was there has been sold, 95% of the time. I've got nothing since the day before yesterday (apart from the penny on the ghost-boat). I wonder if it takes a different time for info to reach broadband computers in Aberdeen, Birmingham, Bradford, Nether Wallop or Peckham ... and lenders in Peckham always get the first chance to respond, while those in Llareggub or Wolverhampton are five seconds late so get nothing.
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