am
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Post by am on Feb 11, 2017 18:09:26 GMT
The problem with that is merchant fees. Is Lendy willing to pay the merchant fees on a direct debit? Are you willing to pay the merchant fees on a direct debit? Other platforms manage without a fee, why should SS be different and ask lenders to pay a fee? RS charge a fee on deposits of less than £1,000 (or at least they did last I looked).
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 11, 2017 19:21:09 GMT
Other platforms manage without a fee, why should SS be different and ask lenders to pay a fee? RS charge a fee on deposits of less than £1,000 (or at least they did last I looked). I deposited using a card with ABL; less than £1k ---- NO fees. Keep in mind that no matter how much we receive in interest WE are the ones putting our money at risk. The platforms are already making huge amount of profit out of the risk we take.
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am
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Post by am on Feb 11, 2017 22:20:10 GMT
RS charge a fee on deposits of less than £1,000 (or at least they did last I looked). I deposited using a card with ABL; less than £1k ---- NO fees. Keep in mind that no matter how much we receive in interest WE are the ones putting our money at risk. The platforms are already making huge amount of profit out of the risk we take. SS might be; a fair number of other platforms are not only not making a huge amount of profit, but aren't even making a profit.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 12, 2017 1:48:27 GMT
I deposited using a card with ABL; less than £1k ---- NO fees. Keep in mind that no matter how much we receive in interest WE are the ones putting our money at risk. The platforms are already making huge amount of profit out of the risk we take. SS might be; a fair number of other platforms are not only not making a huge amount of profit, but aren't even making a profit. The platforms you refer to might have a problem with their model; are investing heavily in their growth; or perhaps not charging the borrowers enough to attract loans. But I insist that charging the lenders that put their money at risk is not the way to go. Personally I am moving out of the platform that make charges for their SM, and have already moved out of others.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Feb 12, 2017 1:56:43 GMT
RS charge a fee on deposits of less than £1,000 (or at least they did last I looked). I deposited using a card with ABL; less than £1k ---- NO fees. Keep in mind that no matter how much we receive in interest WE are the ones putting our money at risk. The platforms are already making huge amount of profit out of the risk we take. Correct. I recently took a punt on a spike on the rolling market. The first three deposits were free and then the charges were passed on to investors below 1000. Investors that did not want the fee passed on could continue using bank payments for free I believe.
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 12, 2017 4:20:23 GMT
I deposited using a card with ABL; less than £1k ---- NO fees. Keep in mind that no matter how much we receive in interest WE are the ones putting our money at risk. The platforms are already making huge amount of profit out of the risk we take. Correct. I recently took a punt on a spike on the rolling market. The first three deposits were free and then the charges were passed on to investors below 1000. Investors that did not want the fee passed on could continue using bank payments for free I believe. Are you referring to ablrateandy? I did more than 3 deposits; No fees? If it is ABL, how are the fees showing up? Is it an extra amount taken out of your bank? Is it a difference between the amount you transferred to the amount of cash available for deposit? Any other way?
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james
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Post by james on Feb 12, 2017 4:40:58 GMT
Other platforms manage without a fee, why should SS be different and ask lenders to pay a fee? There are two different things involved, fees and abuse. P2P platforms are investment services, not instant access savings account providers. If someone is making so many deposits and withdrawals that they seem to be treating the platform as an instant access savings account, that's abuse of the platform facilities. It doesn't necessarily require a constant fee to inhibit abusive customers. No fee for transactions which cost the platform nothing and a limit on how many free transactions which cost the platform money can be used instead. I don't see much need for legitimate investment use to use more than five or so withdrawals a month. Many more deposits because those can be related to a need to invest.
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james
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Post by james on Feb 12, 2017 4:45:40 GMT
Correct. I recently took a punt on a spike on the rolling market. The first three deposits were free and then the charges were passed on to investors below 1000. Investors that did not want the fee passed on could continue using bank payments for free I believe. Are you referring to ablrateandy ? I did more than 3 deposits; No fees? If it is ABL, how are the fees showing up? Is it an extra amount taken out of your bank? Is it a difference between the amount you transferred to the amount of cash available for deposit? Any other way? Ablrate doesn't have a rolling market. If I recall correctly Ablrate have said that they would contact those who engaged in an excessive number or size of transactions to ask them to behave more reasonably. I don't know whether they have yet found it appropriate to do that. They have mentioned in discussion considering it for someone who was doing lots of very low value transactions.
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Post by dualinvestor on Feb 12, 2017 7:52:27 GMT
Correct. I recently took a punt on a spike on the rolling market. The first three deposits were free and then the charges were passed on to investors below 1000. Investors that did not want the fee passed on could continue using bank payments for free I believe. Are you referring to ablrateandy ? I did more than 3 deposits; No fees? If it is ABL, how are the fees showing up? Is it an extra amount taken out of your bank? Is it a difference between the amount you transferred to the amount of cash available for deposit? Any other way? I think elliotn is referring to Ratesetter. "If you wish to transfer funds using your debit card, please enter the amount below and press ‘Next’ to enter your card details. The minimum amount that you can deposit is £10. Your payment will be subject to a £1.50 fixed charge for deposits lower than £1,000." The first three payments were free. In general terms the payment companies (largest two Visa and Mastercard) used to charge the banks a flat fee for debit cards and a percentage for credit cards, presumably by RS' conditions this is £1.50 or less. Whoever pays it the diference will hardly make too much of a diference, the question is would SS be interested in such a arrangement. As for the underlying abolition of INPL, apart from it probably being a FCA requirement as SteveT says, with people discussing ways on here to get SS to take on their unwanted loans by opening multiple accounts, it is hardly surprising it is going.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Feb 12, 2017 11:27:28 GMT
Correct. I recently took a punt on a spike on the rolling market. The first three deposits were free and then the charges were passed on to investors below 1000. Investors that did not want the fee passed on could continue using bank payments for free I believe. Are you referring to ablrateandy ? I did more than 3 deposits; No fees? If it is ABL, how are the fees showing up? Is it an extra amount taken out of your bank? Is it a difference between the amount you transferred to the amount of cash available for deposit? Any other way? Hi, this was on the RS website when I recently made a first DC deposit and the message was first 3 deposits free and then only deposits over 1000, what actual charges are was not stated. I mentioned Andrew in another post regarding Mr Holgate stating on SS INPL discussion that AC had eschewed the use of DCs as they were effectively promissory in nature rather than actual guaranteed, cleared funds on your AC account. Never had any charges on the excellent ABL DC service  . Edit - crossed with dualinvestor several hours later...am checking in chronological order!
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Post by pepperpot on Feb 12, 2017 11:43:49 GMT
SS might be; a fair number of other platforms are not only not making a huge amount of profit, but aren't even making a profit. The platforms you refer to might have a problem with their model; are investing heavily in their growth; or perhaps not charging the borrowers enough to attract loans. But I insist that charging the lenders that put their money at risk is not the way to go. Personally I am moving out of the platform that make charges for their SM, and have already moved out of others. Whether you see charges or not doesn't change the fact that they exist. Each SM will have an £amount attached to its development and ongoing hosting/support that is going to need recouping or pricing into the offering. Comparing say FC and SS; SS borrower pays 18%, platform cut 6%, you get 12%, SM fee 0% FC borrower pays 10%, platform cut 1%, you get 9%, SM fee 0.25% That's very simplistic as it ignores extra fees charged to the borrower and any perceived risk in the individual deals, but on the face of it, exposing yourself to 18% risk looks more expensive than exposing yourself to a 10% level of risk. Ultimately, it's the borrower that pays for everything.
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Post by chris on Feb 12, 2017 13:44:14 GMT
Are you referring to ablrateandy ? I did more than 3 deposits; No fees? If it is ABL, how are the fees showing up? Is it an extra amount taken out of your bank? Is it a difference between the amount you transferred to the amount of cash available for deposit? Any other way? Hi, this was on the RS website when I recently made a first DC deposit and the message was first 3 deposits free and then only deposits over 1000, what actual charges are was not stated. I mentioned Andrew in another post regarding Mr Holgate stating on SS INPL discussion that AC had eschewed the use of DCs as they were effectively promissory in nature rather than actual guaranteed, cleared funds on your AC account. Never had any charges on the excellent ABL DC service . Edit - crossed with dualinvestor several hours later...am checking in chronological order! A worked example: 1. Investor A deposits £100 on the platform via bank transfer, so the client money account has £100 in it in cash belonging to investor A. 2. Investor A buys a loan unit off investor B for that £100. The client money account still has £100 of cash in it but it now belongs to investor B. 3. Investor C deposits £100 on the platform via debit card, where funds are settled in a few days time. The client money account still only has £100 of cash in it belonging to investor B, however the system also thinks investor C has £100 meaning £200 total cash in the system. 4. Investor A sells his loan unit to investor C. The client money account still has £100 of cash in it belonging to investor B with the virtual £100 now allocated to investor A. 5. Investor A then withdraws their £100 cash. The client money account now has £0 of cash in it, despite those funds belonging to investor B, with a virtual £100 still present. In effect the platform has allowed investor B to fund investor C's purchase and investor A's subsequent withdrawal in cash terms. If at that point either the platform goes bust or there is a chargeback on the debit card which prevents receipt of the £100 that was promised to be transferred then you end up with a shortfall in the client money account which is a very big no no. There are ways in which you can use platform funds to cover the shortfall but the compliance guidance I've been given is complex and onerous as it's another big no no to leave platform funds lying around in the client money account. It's for similar reasons that I've always been surprised INPL survived as long as it did (I'm not bitter about losing the P2PIF's 2015 innovation award to it - honest!).
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ablender
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Post by ablender on Feb 12, 2017 13:54:25 GMT
Other platforms manage without a fee, why should SS be different and ask lenders to pay a fee? There are two different things involved, fees and abuse. P2P platforms are investment services, not instant access savings account providers. If someone is making so many deposits and withdrawals that they seem to be treating the platform as an instant access savings account, that's abuse of the platform facilities. It doesn't necessarily require a constant fee to inhibit abusive customers. No fee for transactions which cost the platform nothing and a limit on how many free transactions which cost the platform money can be used instead. I don't see much need for legitimate investment use to use more than five or so withdrawals a month. Many more deposits because those can be related to a need to invest. I do not think that increasing investment money on a platform amounts to abuse. If I have to start transferring money in just in case something crops up and then I have to take it out again as something else comes up on another platform, then I do not see that as abuse but my right to use my money. Definitely I am not going to be dragged into investing in loans I am not happy with. This does not amount to using the platform as a bank saving account. Another point I want to make is that P2P is open to all not only to people who can afford to do lump sum deposits of £1k+. Some people quoting me in other posts mention the way different platforms get their profit. I will point out that these platforms will not have a P2P business if it was not for lenders' money in the first place. They might have something else but not a P2P business. If you look at my posts in this thread and others related to the relevant email received from SS. I am not against removing INPL in principle, but I do see a need to get faster or even automated despots and withdrawals, independently of whether this is using bank transfers or cards. Both can happen as I experienced both on different platforms at £0 fee.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Feb 12, 2017 14:12:29 GMT
Yes, that was it chris, excellent example and makes you wonder if even debit cards would survive fca authorisation. Open question - is anyone using fca authorised plarform that allow debit cards? |
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ilmoro
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Post by ilmoro on Feb 12, 2017 14:48:20 GMT
Yes, that was it chris , excellent example and makes you wonder if even debit cards would survive fca authorisation. Open question - is anyone using fca authorised plarform that allow debit cards? Crowdstacker does according to FAQ. Crowd2fund accepts credit cards. Havent checked for others though PF, LLI, LB dont
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