Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Feb 15, 2018 22:04:03 GMT
I think we have all focused on our raw capital losses today or at least our potential capital losses based on the disappointing sale price. I have just put on my rose tinted spectacles and the next calculation I am going to make is to work out how much interest I gained from this particular loan over the months that I held it and then I will deduct that figure from my potential capital loss and that will make the numbers a lot less painful to read. Perhaps others may like to adopt the same approach so that they feel a bit better about things. Being an 11% loan that ran for six months - I'm guessing that's 5.5%?
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Jeepers
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Post by Jeepers on Feb 15, 2018 22:04:12 GMT
Can I claim losses against tax paid on interest from previous years ?
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Feb 15, 2018 22:07:42 GMT
The most galling part of this is that someone has (knowingly and likely planned) run off with over 2 million quid with almost no repercussions. The accomplices are in the money (platform, legals, auction house and valuers) and the victims are spread so thinly that no one person has lost enough for real outrage to occur and there is no need for law enforcement to get involved. It really is the perfect heist. Could a movie be made about it?
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Monetus
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Post by Monetus on Feb 15, 2018 22:09:59 GMT
The most galling part of this is that someone has (knowingly and likely planned) run off with over 2 million quid with almost no repercussions. The accomplices are in the money (platform, legals, auction house and valuers) and the victims are spread so thinly that no one person has lost enough for real outrage to occur and there is no need for law enforcement to get involved. It really is the perfect heist. Could a movie be made about it? I wouldn't be so sure.... there are people with potential capital losses well into the mid-five figures on this loan. I'm also surprised at how many people are already writing off the total amount as a capital loss given than Lendy are at least trying to pursue the borrower for more (regardless if it's going to take a while), we still have the provision fund to call upon (although for how much we're unsure), and the potential PR disaster that awaits Lendy (thanks to the substantial newspaper coverage on this loan) if they don't attempt to try and sort this whole mess out. I am personally expecting further recovery of capital - one way or another.
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bugs4me
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Post by bugs4me on Feb 15, 2018 22:37:35 GMT
I’m not in this loan (thank goodness) but I’ve been reading the thread with interest.
The core problem seems to keep coming back to the old dash for lenders cash company growth. The bottom line is that many of the loans are in the sub-prime market. There are exceptions of course but that’s the market we’re dealing with IMO.
Coupled with dubious VR’s, not so desirable borrowers and platform(s) failing to disclose material facts although as individuals we’re expected to spend (often) extensive time carrying out our own DD, then frankly the P2P industry has slowly over time managed to lower the standards below acceptable levels for lenders but for the benefit of platform's own wallets.
We’re all aware of the necessity to diversify (as platforms are very keen on preaching thereby implying it was the lenders fault for investing) but one or two losses takes a fair amount of time to bridge the gap between an annual decent return and an overall loss.
IMO nothing will change until the supply of funding starts to decline thereby forcing P2P platforms to adopt a more responsible attitude. Sadly as the P2P lending community only makes up a small minority of this forums readers, I think we will be in for a long wait.
I’ve moved a large chunk out of P2P lending into S&S and even after the recent market turmoil my XIRR is showing superior returns than P2P.
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Jeepers
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Post by Jeepers on Feb 15, 2018 22:43:36 GMT
'Disappointed' is a rather 'interesting' choice of word for you to use here Paul64 one better suited perhaps to the following sentence?: 'I was disappointed that my friend couldn't make it over for dinner this evening I was so much looking forward to seeing him again.' Lenders losing £2.2m is a disappointment but not enough to take the shine off their £3.3m profits. Given the circumstances, I think Lendy should at least distribute the profits they made on this loan to the investors. Seems bad for them to profit from our losses.
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Feb 15, 2018 23:43:53 GMT
The most galling part of this is that someone has (knowingly and likely planned) run off with over 2 million quid with almost no repercussions. The accomplices are in the money (platform, legals, auction house and valuers) and the victims are spread so thinly that no one person has lost enough for real outrage to occur and there is no need for law enforcement to get involved. It really is the perfect heist. Could a movie be made about it? I wouldn't be so sure.... there are people with potential capital losses well into the mid-five figures on this loan. I'm also surprised at how many people are already writing off the total amount as a capital loss given than Lendy are at least trying to pursue the borrower for more (regardless if it's going to take a while), we still have the provision fund to call upon (although for how much we're unsure), and the potential PR disaster that awaits Lendy (thanks to the substantial newspaper coverage on this loan) if they don't attempt to try and sort this whole mess out. I am personally expecting further recovery of capital - one way or another. Speaking for myself, it feels better to just write off the lost capital and to consider any money that does happen to trickle in later a pleasant surprise. I also suspect (as several people here have pointed out) that efforts to pursue the borrower for more money are above all Lendy's way putting off the evil day when they have to come clean and admit they lost huge amounts of investors' money. I would love to get a substantial amount of money back, but it feels a lot better not to be hanging around waiting for it.
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Feb 16, 2018 0:08:14 GMT
I wouldn't be so sure.... there are people with potential capital losses well into the mid-five figures on this loan. I'm also surprised at how many people are already writing off the total amount as a capital loss given than Lendy are at least trying to pursue the borrower for more (regardless if it's going to take a while), we still have the provision fund to call upon (although for how much we're unsure), and the potential PR disaster that awaits Lendy (thanks to the substantial newspaper coverage on this loan) if they don't attempt to try and sort this whole mess out. I am personally expecting further recovery of capital - one way or another. Speaking for myself, it feels better to just write off the lost capital and to consider any money that does happen to trickle in later a pleasant surprise. I also suspect (as several people here have pointed out) that efforts to pursue the borrower for more money are above all Lendy's way putting off the evil day when they have to come clean and admit they lost huge amounts of investors' money. I would love to get a substantial amount of money back, but it feels a lot better not to be hanging around waiting for it. This is entirely my point, and I am sure most investors feel like you. It is therefore the perfect heist. A 2 million sting and a passive victim. Would certainly relieve any guilt for the culprit, after all no-ones really been hurt. (lets face it if you had 10k in this loan you probably have the same in may others)
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poppyland
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Post by poppyland on Feb 16, 2018 0:17:40 GMT
Speaking for myself, it feels better to just write off the lost capital and to consider any money that does happen to trickle in later a pleasant surprise. I also suspect (as several people here have pointed out) that efforts to pursue the borrower for more money are above all Lendy's way putting off the evil day when they have to come clean and admit they lost huge amounts of investors' money. I would love to get a substantial amount of money back, but it feels a lot better not to be hanging around waiting for it. This is entirely my point, and I am sure most investors feel like you. It is therefore the perfect heist. A 2 million sting and a passive victim. Would certainly relieve any guilt for the culprit, after all no-ones really been hurt. (lets face it if you had 10k in this loan you probably have the same in may others) Well, I'm all in for trying to go after the perpetrators of this scam/heist/mistake/incompetence/unfortunate event, whether or not it brings me any money back. I already wrote an email to Lendy, and will complain to the FCA as well. It's interesting that there was a Telegraph article last year in which Lendy was accused of over-inflated valuations. Ripping off lots of "little people" by smallish amounts or ripping off one person by loads is just as bad. I too have wondered what happened to the 2 million, and was interested to hear people saying that the borrower had already stuck it into other development projects - from whence, no doubt, it will be hard to get it back.
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Feb 16, 2018 1:16:48 GMT
This is entirely my point, and I am sure most investors feel like you. It is therefore the perfect heist. A 2 million sting and a passive victim. Would certainly relieve any guilt for the culprit, after all no-ones really been hurt. (lets face it if you had 10k in this loan you probably have the same in may others) Well, I'm all in for trying to go after the perpetrators of this scam/heist/mistake/incompetence/unfortunate event, whether or not it brings me any money back. I already wrote an email to Lendy, and will complain to the FCA as well. It's interesting that there was a Telegraph article last year in which Lendy was accused of over-inflated valuations. Ripping off lots of "little people" by smallish amounts or ripping off one person by loads is just as bad. I too have wondered what happened to the 2 million, and was interested to hear people saying that the borrower had already stuck it into other development projects - from whence, no doubt, it will be hard to get it back. What is suggests to me is that p2p sites are highly attractive to those of dubious integrity and , if I was honest, would probably use myself to squeeze every last dime out of an asset. The problem is cases like this worsen the incentive structure as borrowers see opportunities to offload assets at more than their true 'worth'. The more I think about it the more I consider the valuers to blame. What other profession can make such a glaring mistake. Should they not be offering a ball park range of likely outcomes e.g 1.5-4.5 million in this instance through which lending is based upon the lowest figure? (or at least we can better assess the risk).
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Post by charliebrown on Feb 16, 2018 1:54:19 GMT
if someone robbed a bank for 2.2m in broad daylight they’d be looking at significant prison time. However, a white collar heist like this is not punishable and whatsmore there is a strong suggestion that the victims are themselves to blame for not being more careful with their money. I am not disappointed, I am disgusted.
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jaswells
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Post by jaswells on Feb 16, 2018 3:12:20 GMT
if someone robbed a bank for 2.2m in broad daylight they’d be looking at significant prison time. However, a white collar heist like this is not punishable and whatsmore there is a strong suggestion that the victims are themselves to blame for not being more careful with their money. I am not disappointed, I am disgusted. There are (very few) circumstances whereby this level of loss could be justified (major economic or asset related event), even then question should be asked. But under these relatively benign conditions, it would be foolhardy to merely brush this kind of loss under the carpet and move on. Lets be honest there are likely many many other loans like this lurking on quite a few p2p sites. When the media get tucked into this there will be call for change, if not now but sometime soon.
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Post by charliebrown on Feb 16, 2018 3:27:08 GMT
if someone robbed a bank for 2.2m in broad daylight they’d be looking at significant prison time. However, a white collar heist like this is not punishable and whatsmore there is a strong suggestion that the victims are themselves to blame for not being more careful with their money. I am not disappointed, I am disgusted. There are (very few) circumstances whereby this level of loss could be justified (major economic or asset related event), even then question should be asked. But under these relatively benign conditions, it would be foolhardy to merely brush this kind of loss under the carpet and move on. Lets be honest there are likely many many other loans like this lurking on quite a few p2p sites. When the media get tucked into this there will be call for change, if not now but sometime soon. I hope the media do take this up and shame all those involved, if they have any shame that is. Strange world we live in where this kind of con is legal. I take particular offense at investors being blamed for not being smart enough to spot the con.
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Post by peterpea on Feb 16, 2018 9:38:36 GMT
It is not greed. it is a matter of trust. Lendy told me they have due diligence, would not make a bad loan, have LTV numbers (which are false), they give lots of information which turns out to be inaccurate. How can we make informed decisions based on inaccurate information. If I were greedy I would be continuing to invest. Now I know what is what I will not invest. Diversification is unimportant , the failure rate is very large. We may be talking at cross purposes here, but ... Whether (or not) to invest in any particular loan is one thing and, I agree, the platform plays a significant part in the decision process, but the lender needs to recognise their part in that decision. How much to invest in any particular loan is wholly different, and is solely down to the lender. Diversification is ensuring that risk through any one loan (and/or platform) is managed and kept within tolerance - eg: whatever the individual loser can afford to lose based on the worst possible outcome. And respectfully, Lendy did not tell you they "would not make a bad" loan. As you pointed out earlier, they told you: "they would rather not make a loan than make a bad loan" - that's a world of difference. Call it spin if you like ... the Finance Industry calls it advertising. Your bad loan quotes above are the same thing, if they would rather not make a loan than a bad loan then they would not be making a bad loan. FYI I am well diversified but as I have been in SS/Lendy for so long a very high proportion of my loans are in trouble. It looks like 56% of all my loans are in serious trouble. This is unsustainable, it is not an investment. The FCA rules say that companies have to be clear and accurate when selling the product to their customers. Truth not spin please. Calling it advertising does not excuse this behaviour. This notion of how much I can afford to lose is nonsense too. No-one wants to lose money, yes it might happen sometimes but overall the return should outweigh the losses by a good margin. If you mean affording to lose means I don`t become bankrupt or lose my house then yes I can afford to lose, but the impression I have is that if I lose money it is my own fault and I shouldn`t have believed what I was being told. Are we all supposed to expect to lose more than we gain because that can`t be right. If that is the way of things then Lendy is doomed to failure.
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Post by peterpea on Feb 16, 2018 10:24:57 GMT
Don`t know if it has already been said but......
After google searching the borrower, his property company website says he has a personal portfolio of 17 million pounds. Don`t know if that is after mortgages etc but I would hope there is at least 2 or 3 Million equity that could head our way.
The company he heads is actually based at the castle. I hope he hasn`t arranged for the castle to be bought by a colleague and then he gets his own castle for 1.5M, walking away from the 3.5M debt.
I feel there is hope now I know he is wealthy, it appears. Lendy said they are pursuing him for the balance plus interest etc just hope it isn`t going to be smoke and mirrors "companies debt not mine" sort of thing.
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