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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 13, 2017 16:12:12 GMT
Hi there,
I know that there's a few P2P platforms that either focus on socially responsible investing or offer opportunites for investors interested in socially responsible investing.
I was actually wondering how big the appetite is for that kind of investments amongst users of this forum? Do you already hold social investments? If not is it something that you're likely to try in the future?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 13, 2017 18:42:59 GMT
Hi magenta14, Specifically I was thinking about Abundance and Assetz Capital's Green Energy Income fund. But more generally social investments "encourage corporate practices that promote environmental stewardship, consumer protection, human rights, and diversity" (according to the Wikipedia definition) so there could be plenty of other opportunities... I was curious to know if this community in particular -one that is already taking a different approach to investing via peer-to-peer lending- is interested in that type of 'alternative' finance? |
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Feb 13, 2017 21:08:34 GMT
Hi magenta14, Specifically I was thinking about Abundance and Assetz Capital's Green Energy Income fund. But more generally social investments "encourage corporate practices that promote environmental stewardship, consumer protection, human rights, and diversity" (according to the Wikipedia definition) so there could be plenty of other opportunities... I was curious to know if this community in particular -one that is already taking a different approach to investing via peer-to-peer lending- is interested in that type of 'alternative' finance? I have a fair chunk in "green" investments, but new ones are thin on the ground because of the withdrawal of subsidies. AFAIK your other themes are not generally promoted in the p2p space. However, ThinCats are trying to do something, see www.thincats.com/lending/community-and-social-investments/communitychest.co.uk/ and p2pindependentforum.com/thread/6035/thincats-launches-efficient-investment-product/So far ThinCats have done just one loan, paying 0% (!) but attracting 5% per annum Community Investment Tax Relief (CITR). This is equivalent to 8.33% pretax for a higher rate taxpayer or 6.25% pretax for a basic rate taxpayer. The minimum investment on TC is £1,000 per loan so it won't be for everybody (not least because the loan is unsecured, although the borrower's balance sheet is strong). The launch was only modestly successful. It remains to be seen how many more there will be.
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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 13, 2017 21:48:11 GMT
Hi Holly, speaking for myself I look for good yields on my investment pot, weighing yield against risk, I have invested via Abundance but purely for a short term gain on capital, it's doubtful whether I'd be interested in keeps for the longer term the preference being to keep funds working hard. As far as the environment is concerned and having worked in the Oilfield I would have no qualms whatever allocating funds toward drilling for hydrocarbons within the Arctic circle or being involved in developing open casts to recover minerals, in both instances however I'd need to be highly convinced that all necessary provisions had been made to protect the wider environment and ultimately make the foot print of these operations as light as possible. I wouldn't advocate hydraulic fracturing in and around populated areas as to my mind this is exceptionally invasive and as clearly evidenced in Oklahoma and Kansas can contribute to earthquakes yet conversely I would readily advocate it's use to recover Oil and Gas in areas far removed from people. 'Fracking' is an amazing job to be involved in and I've worked with crews doing just that out in the North Sea whilst working off the deck of a boat. Pretty sure though that there will be others here who do invest some of their funds in socially focused or environmentally balanced ways, I probably would too if the £return on investment were greater. Thanks for asking.  Thanks for these insights magenta14. I'll admit I know nothing about the oil industry so this is very interesting for me. I understand what you're saying about performance, and in all honesty I myself typically invest in higher-return platforms. However if you compare Assetz' green income fund performance to the major peer-to-peer lenders' it's still pretty good, and I believe some socially-focused funds actually perform very well. Thanks again
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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 13, 2017 22:00:19 GMT
Hi magenta14, Specifically I was thinking about Abundance and Assetz Capital's Green Energy Income fund. But more generally social investments "encourage corporate practices that promote environmental stewardship, consumer protection, human rights, and diversity" (according to the Wikipedia definition) so there could be plenty of other opportunities... I was curious to know if this community in particular -one that is already taking a different approach to investing via peer-to-peer lending- is interested in that type of 'alternative' finance? I have a fair chunk in "green" investments, but new ones are thin on the ground because of the withdrawal of subsidies. AFAIK your other themes are not generally promoted in the p2p space. However, ThinCats are trying to do something, see www.thincats.com/lending/community-and-social-investments/communitychest.co.uk/ and p2pindependentforum.com/thread/6035/thincats-launches-efficient-investment-product/So far ThinCats have done just one loan, paying 0% (!) but attracting 5% per annum Community Investment Tax Relief (CITR). This is equivalent to 8.33% pretax for a higher rate taxpayer or 6.25% pretax for a basic rate taxpayer. The minimum investment on TC is £1,000 per loan so it won't be for everybody (not least because the loan is unsecured, although the borrower's balance sheet is strong). The launch was only modestly successful. It remains to be seen how many more there will be. Thanks pikestaff! Very interesting, I had no idea ThinCats had done something like this and I didn't know about the tax relief either. I feel like one of the issues with the current ethical investing landscape is that it might be too limited. Maybe a more 'global' approach would help... Just read through the thread you pointed me to and was wondering if you're happy with your investment so far?
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Feb 14, 2017 8:49:17 GMT
Too soon to say. The auction closed only a few days ago. Also, with no interest payable and no principal until a bullet repayment in 5 years, the loan won't be giving out much in the way of signals! I will be looking for it to draw down promptly, and to receive my tax certificate reasonably soon after that. The sooner I get it, the sooner I can claim my first 5% back from HMRC. Thereafter I will be keeping an eye on the borrower's website and their accounts. Incidentally, the transaction is in the public domain. The borrower's website artbusinessloans.co.uk/ includes a link to this story: thebirminghampress.com/2017/02/local-investment-opportunity-launched/ |
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Feb 14, 2017 11:01:46 GMT
Personally I consider windfarms and various other 'sustainable energy' projects to be environmentally, and therefore socially, irresponsible(solar aint so bad tho'). Politically and economically they make sense of course, because their main function is to generate, not power, but economic growth and hugh profits for a small minority.
All such projects are fundamentally dependant on fossil fuels to exist in the first place, and are, imo, a mere sideshow whilst fossil-fuel exploitation continues unabated.
There might exist true potential in hydrogen-based energy, but that remains airy-fairy because it is really oil and money that run the show.
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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 14, 2017 16:40:33 GMT
Too soon to say. The auction closed only a few days ago. Also, with no interest payable and no principal until a bullet repayment in 5 years, the loan won't be giving out much in the way of signals! I will be looking for it to draw down promptly, and to receive my tax certificate reasonably soon after that. The sooner I get it, the sooner I can claim my first 5% back from HMRC. Thereafter I will be keeping an eye on the borrower's website and their accounts. Incidentally, the transaction is in the public domain. The borrower's website artbusinessloans.co.uk/ includes a link to this story: thebirminghampress.com/2017/02/local-investment-opportunity-launched/No interest payable until full repayment? That is a let down for investors, especially for a P2P platform... Thanks again for info and links.
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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 14, 2017 16:51:14 GMT
Personally I consider windfarms and various other 'sustainable energy' projects to be environmentally, and therefore socially, irresponsible(solar aint so bad tho'). Politically and economically they make sense of course, because their main function is to generate, not power, but economic growth and hugh profits for a small minority. All such projects are fundamentally dependant on fossil fuels to exist in the first place, and are, imo, a mere sideshow whilst fossil-fuel exploitation continues unabated. There might exist true potential in hydrogen-based energy, but that remains airy-fairy because it is really oil and money that run the show. Hi kaya, Thanks for chipping in. I realise that green investments are the first ones to come to mind when discussing SRI, however as mentioned before the concept inlcudes a wide range of themes that include consumer protection, human rights and diversity. Is your view the same with regards to those?
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pikestaff
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Post by pikestaff on Feb 14, 2017 17:13:00 GMT
Too soon to say. The auction closed only a few days ago. Also, with no interest payable and no principal until a bullet repayment in 5 years, the loan won't be giving out much in the way of signals! I will be looking for it to draw down promptly, and to receive my tax certificate reasonably soon after that. The sooner I get it, the sooner I can claim my first 5% back from HMRC. Thereafter I will be keeping an eye on the borrower's website and their accounts. Incidentally, the transaction is in the public domain. The borrower's website artbusinessloans.co.uk/ includes a link to this story: thebirminghampress.com/2017/02/local-investment-opportunity-launched/No interest payable until full repayment? That is a let down for investors, especially for a P2P platform... Thanks again for info and links. I did say in my first post: "paying 0% (!) but attracting 5% per annum Community Investment Tax Relief (CITR). This is equivalent to 8.33% pretax for a higher rate taxpayer or 6.25% pretax for a basic rate taxpayer".
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Feb 14, 2017 17:25:26 GMT
Consumer protection? Good!
Human rights? Hmm, that can mean many things. Nowadays just about every abrogation of personal responsibility is attempted to be justified by claiming this.
Call me a cynic, but I am suspicious of 'community projects' and charities nowadays, without full details and accountability.
To be honest though, I've no idea what might actually constitute 'socially responsible investing'.
As for 'diversity', the meaning of that is, well, diverse! Not all diversity is necessarily good!
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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 14, 2017 23:59:21 GMT
No interest payable until full repayment? That is a let down for investors, especially for a P2P platform... Thanks again for info and links. I did say in my first post: "paying 0% (!) but attracting 5% per annum Community Investment Tax Relief (CITR). This is equivalent to 8.33% pretax for a higher rate taxpayer or 6.25% pretax for a basic rate taxpayer". Yes, sorry, you did say that.
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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 15, 2017 0:10:56 GMT
Consumer protection? Good! Human rights? Hmm, that can mean many things. Nowadays just about every abrogation of personal responsibility is attempted to be justified by claiming this. Call me a cynic, but I am suspicious of 'community projects' and charities nowadays, without full details and accountability. To be honest though, I've no idea what might actually constitute 'socially responsible investing'. As for 'diversity', the meaning of that is, well, diverse! Not all diversity is necessarily good! I can understand that you'd be wary of donating/investing money in/to charities or community projects seeing the number of scandals related to them... Guess in the end it all comes down to the level of transparency no matter the type of investment. Thanks again for your input.
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Post by hollygolightly on Feb 15, 2017 0:14:00 GMT
Some years ago (2003) I bought £1500 Cafe Direct as an EIS. The first year we got a tiny dividend (£30) but not a penny since then. There was a 30% EIS tax rebate so that has been the totality of the return. Not easily traded in so I wasn't impressed in the end with my ethical inclination. I suspect that there will be other ethical stuff that is tax efficient. (and if you want to buy my Cafe Direct shares, PM me!) Thanks for your feedback. Indeed I'm not sure I'd be inclined to invest ethically again if I were you... Sorry I won't be PMing you!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 10:19:09 GMT
I started very early on investing in Turbines which I see as a critical energy resource. The only time I included a socially inclusive version of this they dropped the ball and that loan is in danger of turning belly up. As a result I have two views 1) The British (which includes me) cannot organise a drinks party in a brewery unless it is run a business 2) Carrying out business on the world stage is going to be a disaster with our level of brights/education. :-)
I've also invested in a few compost to gas systems and even here I realise that farmers have limited awareness of what they are trying to do, which reading a simple book would have resolved.
I also invest in student accomodation. My argument for that being socially responsible is listed above. Education, Education of bright people and Education of bright people from outside this country to up our overall "brights" is the most important thing we can do to help the "just managing" along. Having a clean, pleasant room to come back to at University is the least they deserve and might even convince some of them to stay.
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