am
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Post by am on Feb 20, 2017 17:11:15 GMT
I had a quick look when I noticed this in the pipeline, actually a few days ago. I was surprised there was no mention of it here  Normally it only takes a few minutes! There's quite a bit of info found when Googling. I did find a page that said it had already been sold a while ago. Acquired as a development opportunity with the permission (in it's current state I believe, judging by the photos, though subsequent permission may have changed for the yoga studio, or whatever it was) for a 'wealthy middle east family' I believe. A 'cash' buyer who found out about and completed the deal in 10 days. Though no price was stated, I think judging by the other prices I found (5m and 7.5m), it was likely much less than the 11m quoted by SS and this most recent offer. All figures etc from memory. One wonders why they never developed it, but I guess a cool 3.5M return on your 7.5m (worst case) over a few year's isn't bad for doing nothing A web site, allegedly using Land Registry data, says that it was last sold, for £5.256m, on 22nd Nov 2013. This doesn't exclude the possibility that the company which owned it was bought subsequently - if I understand correctly buying a company rather than a property avoids/reduces stamp duty. It was listed for a July 2015 auction, with a guide price of £7.5m, but was withdrawn.
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 20, 2017 17:21:04 GMT
I had a quick look when I noticed this in the pipeline, actually a few days ago. I was surprised there was no mention of it here Normally it only takes a few minutes! There's quite a bit of info found when Googling. I did find a page that said it had already been sold a while ago. Acquired as a development opportunity with the permission (in it's current state I believe, judging by the photos, though subsequent permission may have changed for the yoga studio, or whatever it was) for a 'wealthy middle east family' I believe. A 'cash' buyer who found out about and completed the deal in 10 days. Though no price was stated, I think judging by the other prices I found (5m and 7.5m), it was likely much less than the 11m quoted by SS and this most recent offer. All figures etc from memory. One wonders why they never developed it, but I guess a cool 3.5M return on your 7.5m (worst case) over a few year's isn't bad for doing nothing A web site, allegedly using Land Registry data, says that it was last sold, for £5.256m, on 22nd Nov 2013. This doesn't exclude the possibility that the company which owned it was bought subsequently - if I understand correctly buying a company rather than a property avoids/reduces stamp duty. It was listed for a July 2015 auction, with a guide price of £7.5m, but was withdrawn. For future reference, use LRs own site - free and will be the first place where sales prices will appear (the other sites just mine the data). An increase from the guide price in 2015 to now (7.5m > 11m) simply doesn't ring true to me and is based on the juggling that the borrower has indicated with the (connected to borrower?) company buyout Not that it matters, because the (perfectly sound looking building  - JMHO) is being flattened, taking that LTV through the roof after demolition (presumably after the second tranche is sent - which in itself will increase the LTV). I know that is part and parcel with this type of development is the fluctuation in security value, but I would rather see the early risk here rewarded. 11%? I'd be wary @12% - but would possibly invest in the last couple of tranches.
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am
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Post by am on Feb 20, 2017 17:26:31 GMT
A web site, allegedly using Land Registry data, says that it was last sold, for £5.256m, on 22nd Nov 2013. This doesn't exclude the possibility that the company which owned it was bought subsequently - if I understand correctly buying a company rather than a property avoids/reduces stamp duty. It was listed for a July 2015 auction, with a guide price of £7.5m, but was withdrawn. For future reference, use LRs own site - free and will be the first place where sales prices will appear (the other sites just mine the data). I tried that last night, and it didn't give me any results. I thought I must be using the wrong incantations, or didn't understand what the service did. But it's working quite happily now. Must have been a server outage, or something.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2017 18:22:54 GMT
2 thoughts 1) If I used my punt pole on this I think it would burst like a balloon. 2) Owned by a wealthy middle eastern family... Then why borrow at our rates, yeah I know, and I don't believe it.  Sorry, going to be a punt pole. |
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sussexlender
Member of DD Central
Cheat seeking missile
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Post by sussexlender on Feb 20, 2017 21:09:28 GMT
So the current owners are a company registered in India, but are a "wealthy middle east family" with a Guernsey based company in the background? Anyone able to find out a bit more on the BVI family trust that is trying to buy this strange package of financial magic ? Does anyone really understand the amazing good fortune that they had a sale agreed and then suddenly 4 new offers just pop up for much more money? Some might feel that it all sounds rather suspicious [reminds me of going to see a car and whilst thinking about it lots of "other buyers" - family friends- turned up and allegedly offered more than I did] and also that the seller is not to be trusted when an agreement had been reached. This has all the hallmarks of becoming the mess that has been allowed to develop on FC with their first defaulted "Short Term" London property loans after the directors and companies did a flip after taking the cash to buy another hotel and then stopped paying the interest on the London property. The freehold title plan appears to be defective as well as it omits the vaults. See 8.2 of the valuation document. " Our research of the Land Registry confirms that the Site is held under the freehold title number 16***1. The freehold interest is retained by H**** Pro*** H****** Limited. The title plan for the freehold appears to be inaccurate as it does not include the front lightwell, nor the subpavement vaults which we understand are accessible from the lightwells. This needs to be rectified as it will not be possible to complete the proposed development without freehold title of these areas" . Barge pole for me too 
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Post by p2plender on Feb 20, 2017 23:29:03 GMT
Not for me this one after a little of my own digging and the usual excellent dd by many here n there.
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jamesc
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Post by jamesc on Feb 22, 2017 11:44:57 GMT
I might be stating the obvious but IMHO the launch of this loan is connected with the repayment of PBL143 both loans are for a similar amount. Its the only way I can see how SS can be arrogant enough to try to bring such a large loan (and not IMO that attractive) at 11% if we were all awash with cash for PBL143 and by default almost forced into investing or risk sitting on idle cash for some time. Over the last few days I have seen some large amounts of some of the recent SUB 12% loans come to the SM and sit for a while although they do all get taken, against any 200+ day 12% loan part which will last all of two seconds. I think that the demand for these sub 12% loans is starting to dip and most of the over subscribing comes from people with default high prefunding levels and is by no means real demand. When PBL143 first came if memory serves some £2mln sat on the SM for a couple of weeks plus a very saturated SM. I had a decent five figure amount of PBL143 which I thought was a good loan but want none of this new loan if it comes off and I am sure others feel the same. Its also the reason I have been selling off chunks of PBL143 because I don't want to be left with a large chunk of money with no decent home to go to, I wish I didn't have to because I really want PBL143 to run to term.
Maybe I am being paranoid but it seems to me the pieces fit, hopefully it does not happen but more important if it does, it might put a big hit in the sub 12% loans so we can go back to a few NEW decent 12% loans
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Post by supernumerary on Feb 22, 2017 14:47:22 GMT
I might be stating the obvious but IMHO the launch of this loan is connected with the repayment of PBL143 both loans are for a similar amount. Its the only way I can see how SS can be arrogant enough to try to bring such a large loan (and not IMO that attractive) at 11% if we were all awash with cash for PBL143 and by default almost forced into investing or risk sitting on idle cash for some time. Over the last few days I have seen some large amounts of some of the recent SUB 12% loans come to the SM and sit for a while although they do all get taken, against any 200+ day 12% loan part which will last all of two seconds. I think that the demand for these sub 12% loans is starting to dip and most of the over subscribing comes from people with default high prefunding levels and is by no means real demand. When PBL143 first came if memory serves some £2mln sat on the SM for a couple of weeks plus a very saturated SM. I had a decent five figure amount of PBL143 which I thought was a good loan but want none of this new loan if it comes off and I am sure others feel the same. Its also the reason I have been selling off chunks of PBL143 because I don't want to be left with a large chunk of money with no decent home to go to, I wish I didn't have to because I really want PBL143 to run to term.
Maybe I am being paranoid but it seems to me the pieces fit, hopefully it does not happen but more important if it does, it might put a big hit in the sub 12% loans so we can go back to a few NEW decent 12% loans IMHO, sadly, you have may have hit the nail on the head, as to the reason why there was a large sell off of PBL143 last Sunday morning. Some lenders were wondering what was going on!
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Post by medelm on Feb 22, 2017 14:53:18 GMT
This place is actually only a few minutes walk from where I live and I know there was some controversy so I walked down and took some shots for myself: share.pho.to/Acg2MI assure you I couldnt be bothered with any photoshopping! The building is pretty obviously in need of serious repair, I think the demolition planned is a good thing. I know they mention people are living it the building but it wasn't obvious from the front if people did or didnt live there. Its quite a deep block so its possible they could be. Next door is what I can only guess is an ex-council block. Not the most attractive building to be sat next to but thats London! Its on a quite one way street with a pub at the end (always a positive!). It is very well located and minutes walk to the Marylebone highstreet which buyers of these properties at these prices want. Just to put perspective on the property prices around here, this is the next big development going up in the immediate area (there are a few others on the go as well): www.berkeleygroup.co.uk/new-homes/london/marylebone/west-end-gateIts not in the 'W1' postcode, its on Edgeware Road (which isnt good), its also on Church street which is Lisson Groves council housing main street. Its 3 beds are priced in the early to mid 2s. How ever overpriced you think London is (and I certainly do) if that building can achieve anything remotely close to those figures, then the values quoted for these finished flats in this development might be roughly close. These are of course totally different developments but a small parallel can be drawn. Ill be putting a little bit in this one primarily because I know I can easily wander down and keep an eye on it. |
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 22, 2017 15:01:28 GMT
Thanks medelm for taking some time to take some pics It does look like it is in a bad state, but most property developers would see an opportunity - a lot of it looks to be cosmetic. It seems to me that the building is sound, and personally, I think it is a crying shame to knock it down. That is just my opinion though |
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twoheads
Member of DD Central
Programming
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Post by twoheads on Feb 22, 2017 15:59:52 GMT
Hi medelm , welcome to the forum.
That's possibly the most useful first post on record.
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dermot
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Post by dermot on Feb 22, 2017 16:03:46 GMT
Maybe do a more complete job and knock down the council flats as well!
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twoheads
Member of DD Central
Programming
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Post by twoheads on Feb 24, 2017 21:21:25 GMT
Also, medelm may currently have the highest recorded likes/posts ratio. (although Paul from SS may have come close with his first... he's not in the running now).
Early retirement with assured legendary status or risk halving it with another post?
Tricky conundrum!
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cooling_dude
Bye Bye's for the PPI
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Post by cooling_dude on Feb 24, 2017 23:43:26 GMT
Also, medelm may currently have the highest recorded likes/posts ratio. (although Paul from SS may have come close with his first... he's not in the running now).
Early retirement with assured legendary status or risk halving it with another post?
Tricky conundrum! Ah, no... well currently yes, but the all time honour must surely go to C_D upon his return from a months, ahem, sabbatical. www.p2pindependentforum.com/post/109518/thread It seems you missed an award jonah. Maybe for next year (I'll try not be a nominee for that one)
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sussexlender
Member of DD Central
Cheat seeking missile
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Post by sussexlender on Feb 25, 2017 7:45:47 GMT
Good morning CD
I have e mailed SS to ask what they will be able to do to rectify the defective title in this property before the loan could go live (see the VR entry reference above) as it is such a fundamental issue.
With luck they may be able to satisfy some investors, but until then I am not convinced this loan is sustainable.
SXLR
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Normally it only takes a few minutes!
- JMHO) is being flattened, taking that LTV through the roof after demolition (presumably after the second tranche is sent - which in itself will increase the LTV).
