arbster
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Post by arbster on Mar 22, 2017 17:22:43 GMT
I am only an engineer and no expert in these matters, but I thought that the UK had moved away from the caveat emptor and information asymmetry, with protection afforded by the likes of the Consumer Rights Act 2015. I believe that SS owe investors a duty of care and by denying access to crucial documents during development, SS are breaching that duty. This is especially so since you changed the Ts&Cs and we investors are now lending directly to borrowers. I think this is an important point, and one which Savingstream's lawyers can probably advise Paul on. I would imagine if there was a substantial capital loss arising from a default and it subsequently came to light that Savingstream had been in possession of information that would have been material to the due diligence carried out by lenders, a case might be brought against the platform arguing that it is liable for lenders' losses, at least in part, if not in whole. I understand the sensitivity of borrowers to having their personal/private/business interests exposed, but if "caveat emptor" is applicable here then surely also "caveat venditor" should apply - reasonable disclosure should be an expectation when you're borrowing money from P2P lenders. If borrowers don't like it, they can (try to) borrow the money from banks instead...
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Post by lendinglawyer on Mar 22, 2017 19:51:10 GMT
Appreciate it's not the exact point at hand here, but I suspect the "legal" restrictions around sharing certain reports are rather "contractual" restrictions imposed by the borrower and/or the report provider, although I would say SS should have sufficient negotiating strength to be able to bat the restriction away to give the information to investors.
As a more general point about standards of information etc., I think actually it would be very difficult to ground a claim barring something pretty egregious. Honestly, I think it would have to go beyond negligence as I am not convinced SS would have a "duty of care" as suggested by one, and anyway so-called "pure economic loss" is very difficult to recover under a tort (i.e. negligence) claim so really you would need a breach of contract (difficult given SS's Ts&Cs) or fraud (which is obviously very hard to prove and requires real dishonesty)... Or of course some sort of claim for breach of FSMA/FCA rules, but my suspicion is that one of the reasons why P2P yields are comparably high for a fixed return asset class open to joe public is that it is less heavily regulated than e.g. offerings of debt securities (my knowledge of this area is however pretty limited), and therefore there is a balance to be struck between desire for high yields and regulatory burden, which if increased I strongly suspect would be passed on to investors through lower yields rather than swallowed by the platforms...
All of which is not to say I excuse poor disclosure (I absolutely do not), I just wanted to put my views (and some facts as I understand them) out there.
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vmail
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Post by vmail on Apr 4, 2017 14:36:49 GMT
Someone has just dumped 57k on the SM
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twoheads
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Post by twoheads on Apr 4, 2017 15:14:54 GMT
Someone has just dumped 57k on the SM Actually, it was LfSS and they added 90k to the loan as a mini-tranche. (some time between 14:51 and 16:03 - I was offline at the time).
Loan was increased from £6,770,496 to £6,860,496 (not enough to change the LfSS quoted LTV percentage).
Edit: Tagging cooling_dude - although I know you'll have spotted this already!
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Apr 4, 2017 15:24:45 GMT
Didn't last v long, absorbed funds awaiting the other Pickering but went before a speedy deposit arrived; that was parked at Marylebone, it certainly wasn't going to any European car park!
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twoheads
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Post by twoheads on Apr 4, 2017 16:40:09 GMT
And the loan's just been drawn down (at 17:38).
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twoheads
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Post by twoheads on Apr 5, 2017 8:28:48 GMT
Another mini tranche dumped on SM at 09:22. Loan increased from £6,860,496 to £6,958,054 - an increase of £97,558.
Again, the quoted %LTV figure has not changed.
EDIT: No mention of this in the 'recent updates' for this loan.
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twoheads
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Post by twoheads on Apr 5, 2017 8:34:23 GMT
That £97k mini tranche has all been bought up (09:33).
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twoheads
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Post by twoheads on Apr 5, 2017 9:44:50 GMT
More changes to this loan (at 10:04):
Loan value increased from £29,834,000 to £33,804,000 - an increase of £3.97M.
Quoted LTV reduced from 23% to 21%.
EDIT - They seem to have created a monster.
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locutus
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Post by locutus on Apr 5, 2017 10:47:27 GMT
Paul64 - can you please clarify what has caused the GDV for this proposal to increase by £3.97m over night. Seemingly, no ammendment has been made to the accompanying VR. Thanks. - this is quite a material change. Is this a mistake or has new information come to light?
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Post by Paul64 on Apr 5, 2017 11:44:53 GMT
Hi, we have had confirmation from the valuer as to the residual land value of phase 1 of the site (this has increased the overall residual land value of the site from £10.1m to £10.37m and is commented upon in the loan parts. We have also clarified/confirmed the GDV of phase one as per the commentary in the loan parts copied below;:
- GDV of Phase 1 is now calculated at £33,804,000 being the GDV of the completed 60 eco-lodges and 94 eco-glamping pods (£26,180,000) plus the value of the existing buildings/property on the site (arena, gas and restaurant site of £3,654,000) plus the residual land value of phase two (£3,970,000).
Hence the increase in the GDV on the website of £3,970,000, as the residual land value of phase 2 was previously excluded, but is now included.
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seeingred
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Post by seeingred on Jun 13, 2017 9:03:37 GMT
new tranche in pipeline - already £245k on the SM and they hope to raise another £1.13million of new money?
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Jun 13, 2017 9:53:47 GMT
Huge project for p2p, this is phase 1 build GDV 26.2M.
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GeorgeT
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Post by GeorgeT on Jun 13, 2017 15:07:51 GMT
When I saw the new tranche appear in the pipeline with a Value TBC of £33m I almost fell off my chair.
I don't know how many more tranches are planned but if this goes anywhere near 70% it is going to be massive and therefore will be totally illiquid on the SM.
I responded by listing my loan parts for sale today. 12% and 280 days to run tick a few of the right boxes - but potential total size of loan is a big red cross for me.
My advice would be only invest if you are comfortable to hold to term. Liquidity of any sort must be questionable once this one enlarges some more.
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fp
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Post by fp on Jun 13, 2017 15:49:54 GMT
I responded by listing my loan parts for sale today. 12% and 280 days to run tick a few of the right boxes - but potential total size of loan is a big red cross for me. My advice would be only invest if you are comfortable to hold to term. Liquidity of any sort must be questionable once this one enlarges some more. This is already the case, as i've a feeling you are about to find out..... At the rate mine has just moved down the queue, which was a lot smaller than it is now, i'd say you have 2 to 2.5 months of no interest coming on that money, knocking your 12% down to about 7% XIRR at a rough guess.
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