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Post by dan1 on Apr 11, 2017 12:56:05 GMT
I'm a little surprised that the 14% is funding much faster than the 12% It's the rate, just look at the SM where the 16% remains at a stubbornly high premium. Ignoring the aircraft loans (a rare diversifier in the p2p world), the 9 loans with the highest premium are 13%+.
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 11, 2017 12:57:58 GMT
The proposal lays out the other loans/ mitigants etc on page 9. Including other p2p loans Regards Ablrate Thanks. There does appear to be a web of connections that it's at least wise to be aware of - 040, 057 and 059 are also connected in some way. I will need to sit down, read all the proposals and establish my total exposure. Can anyone shed light on the loand to another p2p lender? Not without ID main company but if you go to CH and look at the charges filed over that company its very obvious which platform
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blender
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Post by blender on Apr 11, 2017 13:03:23 GMT
I'm a little surprised that the 14% is funding much faster than the 12% It's the rate, just look at the SM where the 16% remains at a stubbornly high premium. Ignoring the aircraft loans (a rare diversifier in the p2p world), the 9 loans with the highest premium are 13%+. Quite right dan1. The factors affecting the choice in order of importance are: the rate, the rate, the rate, the term, and the risk.
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Post by dan1 on Apr 11, 2017 13:09:22 GMT
Thanks. There does appear to be a web of connections that it's at least wise to be aware of - 040, 057 and 059 are also connected in some way. I will need to sit down, read all the proposals and establish my total exposure. Can anyone shed light on the loand to another p2p lender? Not without ID main company but if you go to CH and look at the charges filed over that company its very obvious which platform Thanks ilmoro. Looks like I have some reading material. Connected borrowers is perhaps the most difficult thing to derive. I accept that I'll never quite fully understand financial accounts and statements but I at least should know how much I've lent to each of the borrowers. I'll try and write up my own list at some point on the connected borrowers thread. Thanks again
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stevio
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Post by stevio on Apr 11, 2017 13:10:50 GMT
ablrate what would happen if the 12% loan DIDN'T fill and the 14% one DID?
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blender
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Post by blender on Apr 11, 2017 13:52:48 GMT
ablrate what would happen if the 12% loan DIDN'T fill and the 14% one DID? A very good question. The 12% loan does not have to fill; it needs to get to £350k. I am sure it will within the 30days, but the 14% loan will fill much more quickly. To make the question more complicated, what happens if the 14% loan fills quickly, but the 12% loan takes much more time to fill or reach £350k? At what point is the 14% loan drawn down? (Instant returns are paid until drawdown, not filling of the loan, and Ablrate will be keen to have it drawn down). Can the 14% loan be drawn down before the 12%; if so can it be drawn down before the 12% has reached £350k? Some of those who bid first on the 14% loan might think they will either get a nice long period of tax-free instant returns, or the chance to trade the 14% and buy the first charge 12%. (Financial services rely on people being financially motivated - the platform needs us to be greedy b*st*rds for its correct operation).
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fp
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Post by fp on Apr 11, 2017 13:53:34 GMT
That lot again  Borrower linked with 041 and 060 I think? Any other loans linked to this borrower (on this or other platforms) that you know of? Current total is £6,012,712 based on P2P lending, this excludes these 2 new loans.
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ben
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Post by ben on Apr 11, 2017 13:53:55 GMT
ablrate what would happen if the 12% loan DIDN'T fill and the 14% one DID? there might be a few people with a spare few penies to spare after leaving bondmason
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 11, 2017 13:54:24 GMT
I reckon the 12% loan will fill fine once the 14% is no longer available. I've spread my funds across both but it's the 12% one that I'll be keeping longer term.
Ps The exact same thing was observed when MT offered a split-tranche loan last summer
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ilmoro
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'Wondering which of the bu***rs to blame, and watching for pigs on the wing.' - Pink Floyd
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Post by ilmoro on Apr 11, 2017 14:07:00 GMT
ablrate what would happen if the 12% loan DIDN'T fill and the 14% one DID? A very good question. The 12% loan does not have to fill; it needs to get to £350k. I am sure it will within the 30days, but the 14% loan will fill much more quickly. To make the question more complicated, what happens if the 14% loan fills quickly, but the 12% loan takes much more time to fill or reach £350k? At what point is the 14% loan drawn down? (Instant returns are paid until drawdown, not filling of the loan, and Ablrate will be keen to have it drawn down). Can the 14% loan be drawn down before the 12%; if so can it be drawn down before the 12% has reached £350k? Some of those who bid first on the 14% loan might think they will either get a nice long period of tax-free instant returns, or the chance to trade the 14% and buy the first charge 12%. (Financial services rely on people being financially motivated - the platform needs us to be greedy b*st*rds for its correct operation).
I suspect that there will probably be 'people interested in filling any outstanding balance' still available close to the close, much like there was for the reverse meccano plane.
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blender
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Post by blender on Apr 11, 2017 14:25:42 GMT
Agreed. I always wanted the No.10 Meccano set, but it was for the sons of the gentry.
The 12% loan should have no trouble getting funded for a first charge. On the question of why the 14% fills first, I was just trying to say that it is more complex than deciding whether to invest for 48months in a first charge at 12%, or for 48 months for a second charge at 14%. I could be dead in 48 months. The question is rather, where does the spare cash go first? I guess that if I hold any of this loan in 12 months time it will probably be the first charge, perhaps a quarter of what I have just invested at 14%. Ablrate is developing into a very flexible and effective platform. BTW people have noticed that the 14% has 6 months guaranteed interest? Rather more of these recently; gives the borrower good flexibility.
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iren
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Post by iren on Apr 11, 2017 14:34:50 GMT
Part of the extra investment on the 14% loan will be the result of momentum and its smaller size. Personally, I've just bought all I want of the 14%, and only part of what I want on the 12%, on the basis the 12% is more likely to be around for me to add later.
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archie
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Post by archie on Apr 11, 2017 14:48:10 GMT
I would normally put everything on red (14%) but for once I've been sensible and gone with a split.  I like the amortising aspect of the higher rate loan. |
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Apr 11, 2017 16:27:18 GMT
First thoughts:
- desktop valuation based on ebitda
- loans cannot be afforded without a near tripling in net profit within 2 years
- this is with the risk of changing a seemingly successful formula
- BN group profits took a dive whilst finance costs have leapt upwards
- as noted already the external guarantees are spreading extremely thinly
I'm struggling with the 12% tranche - the extra pennies/premium at 14% for level I'd be willing to put into this pub certainly not worth it.
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invester
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Post by invester on Apr 11, 2017 17:05:34 GMT
Yes, that bothers me.
If I haven't missed something, the valuation of the security is 5.5 x EBITDA which they have an arbitrary addition of around £50k to make it £1m - that seems rather odd and careless. If it's a valuation, why should anyone care about it being a round number or not, and why not deduct it to get the alternative round number of £900,000?
What happens if the underlying business fails, and what happes to the EBITDA valuation then?
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