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Post by dan1 on Apr 11, 2017 18:40:58 GMT
Only ~10k / 4% left of the 14% 2nd charge, compare that to 86% left of the 1st charge 12% loan!
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Apr 11, 2017 18:48:20 GMT
I like ABL but this one's not for me - four years is a loooong time, even if one loan is amortizing.
Good Luck Peeps (And I'm not being facetious)
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Neil_P2PBlog
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Post by Neil_P2PBlog on Apr 11, 2017 18:54:21 GMT
I don't think many people are thinking 4 years, they're thinking 'as long as I like then sell it at a premium on the SM'!
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Apr 11, 2017 19:12:39 GMT
And Good Luck with easily selling on the SM too when you want or need to!
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Post by dan1 on Apr 11, 2017 19:48:16 GMT
14% now 100% funded
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blender
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Post by blender on Apr 11, 2017 21:45:50 GMT
It's good to see how the three loans are going. Very wise to run the 10% loan first (note the loan numbers).
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Apr 12, 2017 10:34:35 GMT
Perhaps we will be seeing more heavily discounted loan parts up for sale in the future?
The liquidity should still be there for those willing to discount, something completely lacking at SS sorry, Lendy.
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Post by ablrate on Apr 12, 2017 11:15:21 GMT
First thoughts: - desktop valuation based on ebitda - loans cannot be afforded without a near tripling in net profit within 2 years - this is with the risk of changing a seemingly successful formula - BN group profits took a dive whilst finance costs have leapt upwards - as noted already the external guarantees are spreading extremely thinly I'm struggling with the 12% tranche - the extra pennies/premium at 14% for level I'd be willing to put into this pub certainly not worth it. Response: The valuation has been provided by a third party valuer with appropriate professional liability insurance and has been prepared on the basis of a multiple of forecast earnings. Lenders are reminded that the tenant - being a subsidiary of B******* group - brings considerable credibility to the proposal through being part of a larger licensed trade group with a proven concept and business model. Furthermore, the management team behind B******** has also evidenced further, previous success in assembling a portfolio of profitable licensed trade premises / businesses, improving trade and efficiencies before effecting a trade sale at considerable financial gain. Thus, the business and management team behind the business both have a track record in the sector and as such bring substantial credibility to the proposition. When considered on the basis of the most recent actual accounts for the FYE 31 August 2016 (showing a net profit of £86,839), either of the proposed loans are affordable in isolation. When the combined debt service costs of £141,904 (i.e. £60,000 + £81,904) are considered, there is a shortfall of c. £55,065 pa based on current earnings but full servicability is achieved against forecast earnings (from a credible operator). In circumstances where the underlying business is unable to finance the combined debt service costs of its own accord, we would expect the corporate and / or personal guarantors to subsidise any shortfall (noting the vested interest of both of these parties in the success of the borrower). However, we also anticipate the operator will increase turnover and profitability (in line with forecasts) so would anticipate that in practise, any actual shortfall would at least be in part mitigated by some form of uplift in profitability (and hence reduce the scale of any subsidy required from the corporate / personal guarantor). It should also be noted that B********* intends to invest considerable further funds to finance the proposed refurbishment works (i.e. this will not all be financed by the funds raised through Ablrate). This impacts to improve the position of participating lenders by enhancing the value of the security further. It is not the purpose of the credit report to provide a full financial analysis of the B********* finances. However, as detailed in previous reports featuring B******** subsidiaries / B********** guarantees, the group is undergoing a period of growth focused around the acquisition of new businesses / premises. As such, borrowing has increased as the group has rolled out its branded bar / restaurant and traditional licensed premises concepts in accordance with group corporate strategy. As such, both group borrowings and debt service costs have increased accordingly. Nonetheless, this still provides for a group net worth of £3m+. The credit report highlights the potential concentration risk in relation to corporate guarantees pledged by B*********. Lenders are also reminded that all facilities provided to B********* and / or any subsidiary and / or any connected borrower via Ablrate are all performing to terms. No arrears or event of default has been seen and given a number of facilities are fully amortising, these loan balances have also reduced considerably since draw down. In summary, whilst the valuation is based on forecast earnings, the tenant / counterparty can demonstrate a proven and profitable concept and strong track record in the sector. Lenders are being offered 1st / 2nd charge security and in addition, make weight security in the form of corporate and personal guarantees from counterparty's with substantial means. Lenders are being offered a return of 12% pa or 14% pa which under either option provides for a substantial return.
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Post by lendinglawyer on Apr 14, 2017 7:29:00 GMT
I was on holiday when this launched so just catching up, but I find it slightly surprising that the junior tranche is amortising while the senior tranche is interest only. Is the effect of this not to effectively make the "junior" tranche the "senior" tranche unless and until a default occurs? A lot of the "junior" principal could have been repaid in say 3 years time if a default occurs then, which would dramatically reduce proceeds that would have been available to repay senior had both been interest only.
I also have a general dislike of pubs and pub businesses as security so I'm not keen for this one.
However I will say that a 5.5x EBITDA valuation is a conservative multiple so I don't see any material problems there
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SteveT
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Post by SteveT on Apr 14, 2017 8:15:44 GMT
I was on holiday when this launched so just catching up, but I find it slightly surprising that the junior tranche is amortising while the senior tranche is interest only. Is the effect of this not to effectively make the "junior" tranche the "senior" tranche unless and until a default occurs? A lot of the "junior" principal could have been repaid in say 3 years time if a default occurs then, which would dramatically reduce proceeds that would have been available to repay senior had both been interest only. I also have a general dislike of pubs and pub businesses as security so I'm not keen for this one. However I will say that a 5.5x EBITDA valuation is a conservative multiple so I don't see any material problems there A slightly odd way of looking at it, IMHO. The prioritisation of the tranches is of no relevance "unless and until a default occurs". At that point, the 1st charge must be repaid in full before the 2nd gets a look-in. Were the 2nd charge loan to be Interest Only too then the risk on that tranche would be somewhat higher still, which ought to result in a yet higher rate. The scenario is no different to raising a second mortgage on your house; why would your main mortgage lender be bothered whether the second mortgage is Interest Only or Repayment basis? Either way, if he doesn't get paid then he's having your house.
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Post by lendinglawyer on Apr 14, 2017 8:38:49 GMT
I was on holiday when this launched so just catching up, but I find it slightly surprising that the junior tranche is amortising while the senior tranche is interest only. Is the effect of this not to effectively make the "junior" tranche the "senior" tranche unless and until a default occurs? A lot of the "junior" principal could have been repaid in say 3 years time if a default occurs then, which would dramatically reduce proceeds that would have been available to repay senior had both been interest only. I also have a general dislike of pubs and pub businesses as security so I'm not keen for this one. However I will say that a 5.5x EBITDA valuation is a conservative multiple so I don't see any material problems there A slightly odd way of looking at it, IMHO. The prioritisation of the tranches is of no relevance "unless and until a default occurs". At that point, the 1st charge must be repaid in full before the 2nd gets a look-in. Were the 2nd charge loan to be Interest Only too then the risk on that tranche would be somewhat higher still, which ought to result in a yet higher rate. The scenario is no different to raising a second mortgage on your house; why would your main mortgage lender be bothered whether the second mortgage is Interest Only or Repayment basis? Either way, if he doesn't get paid then he's having your house. I think you'll find that normally the second ranking is the non-amortising tranche if there is going to be different treatment. Also the first ranking would have a negative pledge so would need to agree to the second ranking - I suspect they very much would care as every penny that goes to someone else is a penny they lose. Having your house is great but it's not what they want! Edit: but at the end of the day you're right. It is just a question of risk. But I think here the extra 2% and an amortising structure make the second ranking significantly more attractive than the first ranking.
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elliotn
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Post by elliotn on Apr 14, 2017 10:52:47 GMT
For the 12% tranche I already have sufficient exposure to AH's pubs at this rate.
Just with the added security of recourse to SIPP assets and APF's assumption of first line credit risk too.
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Post by epicurean on Apr 14, 2017 19:55:48 GMT
I'm new to P2P lending so forgive the naive questions but I'm struggling to see how people get comfortable with opportunities like this.
- The valuation is addressed to the borrower and states "this is not a Red Book valuation for loan security purposes" which would seem to make it of limited value - The £1m valuation is based on the borrower's projections of EBITDA increasing from £88,378 to £183,150. With a 5.5x multiple, today's value is £486k which makes this 154% LTV day 1.The acquisition price is not detailed anywhere which would help to confirm today's value and the level of equity going in to keep the owners committed (though I note the personal guarantee). - It feels misguided to talk about LTV as it would seem this is really more like unsecured lending to an operating business (as that's where all the value in the lease is derived from) - Who is the vendor and why are they selling? - It's contrary to the principle of subordination for junior debt to get amort with senior interest only. Why should a lender who has agreed to be subordinated be repaid ahead of senior debt? - I assume there is an intercreditor/deed of priority? What are the key terms? - When the same institution is placing senior and junior debt funded by different investors there is a Chinese wall to prevent conflicts of interest. How does Ablrate manage this? - The debt is only serviceable if you believe the forecasts. Delivering against the forecast feels like it should be equity risk not debt risk at £750k (even at 12%/14%) but I guess others must take a different view?
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JamesFrance
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Port Grimaud 1974
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Post by JamesFrance on Apr 15, 2017 7:06:14 GMT
I must confess that I have made a small investment in this loan without reading the valuation, assuming that Ablrate would ensure that the value was realistic.
Because I spread my money widely in hundreds of loans I do not have time to read all the documentation and therefore rely on platforms to provide reliable figures, accepting that I will likely end up with the platform default percentage.
Having now read this valuation after reading the post above it seems to be no more than a guess about what a business might be worth one day if all goes well. I had imagined that this was a loan backed by a property valued at one million pounds which is clearly not the case.
I will obviously have to be less trusting and either read everything or avoid loans of this type completely.
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kaya
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Post by kaya on Apr 15, 2017 8:20:14 GMT
Probably like many others, I don't plan in keeping this too long. The secondary market could get a bit sticky.
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