adrianc
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Post by adrianc on Jun 5, 2017 9:46:50 GMT
If anybody is seriously arguing that the Tories haven't moved so far right that they've basically been the subject of a reverse take-over by UKIP, I think they must be in some parallel universe.
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 5, 2017 10:03:38 GMT
If anybody is seriously arguing that the Tories haven't moved so far right that they've basically been the subject of a reverse take-over by UKIP, I think they must be in some parallel universe. Wot's wrong with that?  Personally, I am fed up to the back teeth with the Pinko, Lefty, Socialist, Liberal, Politically Correct doctrines/tendencies within all the Parties that I think a good solid dose of Strong Right Wingism for a while might bring back some semblance of balance - you know, a bit of realistic, common sense. 
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Post by nanniema on Jun 5, 2017 10:13:32 GMT
For those that are not going to bother please, can I ask you to go to the voting booth and do the following... Write none vertically down over the list of names on the paper and put a single line vertically through all the voting boxes. Place in the box. Effect. If enough people do it then the returning officers need to declare it with the attendent publicity. Surely following the recent outrages in Manchester and London it is imperative to confirm, by voting correctly, that in spite of these child murderers we are still a democracy. The timing of the London attack was surely designed to disrupt the election so we need to confirm to those that do not believe in or want to live in a free society, that we do and they always have that freedom to live elsewhere. I am 74 and sometimes despair of the younger generation but when children are butchered at a pop concert and the response is to have an even bigger concert then I applaud them and the wonderful, bloody minded country we live in
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Post by dan1 on Jun 5, 2017 10:18:00 GMT
If anybody is seriously arguing that the Tories haven't moved so far right that they've basically been the subject of a reverse take-over by UKIP, I think they must be in some parallel universe. Wot's wrong with that? Personally, I am fed up to the back teeth with the Pinko, Lefty, Socialist, Liberal, Politically Correct doctrines/tendencies within all the Parties that I think a good solid dose of Strong Right Wingism for a while might bring back some semblance of balance - you know, a bit of realistic, common sense. Right wing tub-thumping from an aussie, surely not:)
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Post by chielamangus on Jun 5, 2017 10:20:25 GMT
I’m assuming that some of the comments on this thread are from people who are too young to appreciate what the 1970’s were really like with militant unions holding the general public to ransom and bank rate at 15.00% in October 1976. And yes, before some smart a*se tells me, I know that under Thatcher rates touched 17% and ran in double figures for much of the 1980’s. A vote for Corbyn is a vote to return to those dark days and as far as I’m concerned, like it or not, there is no alternative to voting Conservative if your personal finances are of importance otherwise much of the comment on this forum about the ways and means of protecting and growing one’s money is nothing more than idle chatter. These generational differences are fascinating. Our point of view is conditioned by our experiences and I must say my view of the political labour movement was shaped during the 60s and 70s when the unions ran the shop. I worked in one very large set up where the foreman had to deferentially ask the shop steward if he wouldn't mind asking the men to start work (after an extended tea break of half an hour). No one did anything without that shop steward's say-so. The workers were cowed by him, just as much as management. Productivity was awful. We could have achieved the same output with a quarter of the workforce (or achieved 4 times as much as we did). At one time, I worked in a team with a Polish welder and he was as bewildered as I was. He said to me how could Britain have won the war with this approach - it was not the Britain he imagined he was coming to. In another organisation, state funded, I had some vacation work over several summers and was told to slow down, take it easy, because the permanent workforce believed I was setting a bad example of what could be done, and they did not want to have to go up a couple of gears. Then again, I was following the whole sorry process of our EEC membership application from around 1960 to 1971, the intensely anti -British attitude of the French, the establishment of the CAP which de Gaulle thought was his trump card as he believed no self-respecting country could accept its terms (it was/is the engine which ensured the UK bore a disproportionate level of the costs of EEC operations), the craven acceptance of these terms by Heath, the lies by all parties in the '75 Referendum that it was all just about trade, the political failure to see the impact of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the EU's "adoption" of the former communist countries of central and eastern Europe (tho' I personally benefitted from the opportunities of working in most of these countries). A recurring complaint in those countries was that they had just got their freedom from the Communists and they were immediately giving it away again to the EU - they had no confidence in their own politicians to behave democratically and the EU was the stick to keep them on the straight and narrow. But at least the EU gave them brand new roads and junkets/study trips to the west.
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Jun 5, 2017 10:31:48 GMT
I’m assuming that some of the comments on this thread are from people who are too young to appreciate what the 1970’s were really like with militant unions holding the general public to ransom and bank rate at 15.00% in October 1976. And yes, before some smart a*se tells me, I know that under Thatcher rates touched 17% and ran in double figures for much of the 1980’s. A vote for Corbyn is a vote to return to those dark days and as far as I’m concerned, like it or not, there is no alternative to voting Conservative if your personal finances are of importance otherwise much of the comment on this forum about the ways and means of protecting and growing one’s money is nothing more than idle chatter. These generational differences are fascinating. Our point of view is conditioned by our experiences and I must say my view of the political labour movement was shaped during the 60s and 70s when the unions ran the shop. I worked in one very large set up where the foreman had to deferentially ask the shop steward if he wouldn't mind asking the men to start work (after an extended tea break of half an hour). No one did anything without that shop steward's say-so. The workers were cowed by him, just as much as management. Productivity was awful. We could have achieved the same output with a quarter of the workforce (or achieved 4 times as much as we did). At one time, I worked in a team with a Polish welder and he was as bewildered as I was. He said to me how could Britain have won the war with this approach - it was not the Britain he imagined he was coming to. In another organisation, state funded, I had some vacation work over several summers and was told to slow down, take it easy, because the permanent workforce believed I was setting a bad example of what could be done, and they did not want to have to go up a couple of gears. Then again, I was following the whole sorry process of our EEC membership application from around 1960 to 1971, the intensely anti -British attitude of the French, the establishment of the CAP which de Gaulle thought was his trump card as he believed no self-respecting country could accept its terms (it was/is the engine which ensured the UK bore a disproportionate level of the costs of EEC operations), the craven acceptance of these terms by Heath, the lies by all parties in the '75 Referendum that it was all just about trade, the political failure to see the impact of the fall of the Berlin Wall and the EU's "adoption" of the former communist countries of central and eastern Europe (tho' I personally benefitted from the opportunities of working in most of these countries). A recurring complaint in those countries was that they had just got their freedom from the Communists and they were immediately giving it away again to the EU - they had no confidence in their own politicians to behave democratically and the EU was the stick to keep them on the straight and narrow. But at least the EU gave them brand new roads and junkets/study trips to the west. One of my very first jobs involved a dressing down by a union rep for being too productive, an attitude I met more than once. I saw the unions destroy more than one business I was involved in. I really did see "down tools" over biscuits in the tea room. Honest to god. I really don't like politics much at all, I hate the entire business to the core but I know a dangerous ideology and a dangerous man when I see one. I've rarely voted and mostly because I was out of the country, but it would take prison walls to keep me from voting this time. As to the youngsters that I have spoken to who are all for getting at "the rich" (which seems to be anybody who's worked and achieved more than them) then I can only ask them where they will plug in their gadgets when the power company is again on strike? That should scare the bejasus out of them.
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stub8535
Member of DD Central
personal opinions only. Not qualified to advise on investment products.
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Post by stub8535 on Jun 5, 2017 11:13:09 GMT
For those that are not going to bother please, can I ask you to go to the voting booth and do the following... Write none vertically down over the list of names on the paper and put a single line vertically through all the voting boxes. Place in the box. Effect. If enough people do it then the returning officers need to declare it with the attendent publicity. Surely following the recent outrages in Manchester and London it is imperative to confirm, by voting correctly, that in spite of these child murderers we are still a democracy. The timing of the London attack was surely designed to disrupt the election so we need to confirm to those that do not believe in or want to live in a free society, that we do and they always have that freedom to live elsewhere. I am 74 and sometimes despair of the younger generation but when children are butchered at a pop concert and the response is to have an even bigger concert then I applaud them and the wonderful, bloody minded country we live in I to echo your sentiments about misguided extremists actions in Manchester and London. I believe it to be better to spoil a ballot paper and register as such rather than apathetically not bother "because the parties are all as bad as each other" which seems to be the sentiment being considered by some commentaors. This spoiling of the ballot paper is a "correct" voting method used several times before. It also leaves the returning officer in no doubt that it is a spoilt paper rather than "voter intention unclear". I have not in my 60+ years on this planet come across such a weak list of candidates for my local area. We are not voting for a party leader but our local representative in parliament. This is the first time I have not seen any glimmer that I can support in any local candidate. I was also trying to encourage all to vote in whatever way they wish in previous posts.
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Post by yorkshireman on Jun 5, 2017 11:22:11 GMT
For those that are not going to bother please, can I ask you to go to the voting booth and do the following... Write none vertically down over the list of names on the paper and put a single line vertically through all the voting boxes. Place in the box. Effect. If enough people do it then the returning officers need to declare it with the attendent publicity. Surely following the recent outrages in Manchester and London it is imperative to confirm, by voting correctly, that in spite of these child murderers we are still a democracy. The timing of the London attack was surely designed to disrupt the election so we need to confirm to those that do not believe in or want to live in a free society, that we do and they always have that freedom to live elsewhere. I am 74 and sometimes despair of the younger generation but when children are butchered at a pop concert and the response is to have an even bigger concert then I applaud them and the wonderful, bloody minded country we live in I agree with most of those sentiments. Unfortunately concerts and vigils whilst no doubt well intended, do not address the problem. More political correctness and death and destruction on the streets of the UK is simply not an option, carrying on as we have before, heads buried deep under the sand, is no longer a choice. Since 9/11, politicians and the elites have refused to call these heinous murderers islamic terrorists and would appear to believe that we, the public are a lynch mob in waiting and that we have to be restrained whilst at the same time they argue, quite rightly, that certain communities should not be held collectively responsible for a terrorist outrage, yet they hold the rest of the country responsible for something that hasn't even happened. If we wish to defeat the terrorists, this sort of politically correct nonsense has to end and I don’t see that coming from a party lead by a man who once called members of Hamas and Hezbollah his friends despite subsequently expressing regret for having done so. www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/04/jeremy-corbyn-says-he-regrets-calling-hamas-and-hezbollah-friendsAs for his claims that “ he had worked hard to help secure peace in Northern Ireland” www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39992892One assumes that the majority of Irish republicans were rational and open to discussion whereas islamic terrorists appear to have no agenda other than taking us back to the middle ages whilst achieving the maximum loss of innocent lives. Simple choice, don’t be fooled by Corbyn, he isn’t some misguided but well-meaning old man but a deeply committed socialist intent on crashing our economy, failing the young people in our schools, undermining our defences and holding people back to suit the aims of him and his cronies.
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IFISAcava
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Post by IFISAcava on Jun 5, 2017 11:24:22 GMT
If anybody is seriously arguing that the Tories haven't moved so far right that they've basically been the subject of a reverse take-over by UKIP, I think they must be in some parallel universe. Wot's wrong with that? Personally, I am fed up to the back teeth with the Pinko, Lefty, Socialist, Liberal, Politically Correct doctrines/tendencies within all the Parties that I think a good solid dose of Strong Right Wingism for a while might bring back some semblance of balance - you know, a bit of realistic, common sense. If only - but then that would mean making decisions that were the best for the country, rather than decisions that were the best for the Tory party.
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Post by yorkshireman on Jun 5, 2017 11:27:06 GMT
Wot's wrong with that? Personally, I am fed up to the back teeth with the Pinko, Lefty, Socialist, Liberal, Politically Correct doctrines/tendencies within all the Parties that I think a good solid dose of Strong Right Wingism for a while might bring back some semblance of balance - you know, a bit of realistic, common sense. If only - but then that would mean making decisions that were the best for the country, rather than decisions that were the best for the Tory party. And Labour, Lib Dems et al
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ozboy
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Mine's a Large One! (Snigger, snigger .......)
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Post by ozboy on Jun 5, 2017 11:39:23 GMT
If only - but then that would mean making decisions that were the best for the country, rather than decisions that were the best for the Tory party. And Labour, Lib Dems et al Many decisions made are often best for various Minorities, so keen are all the main (and not so main) parties to be Oh So Politically Correct. Common Sense and Politics parted company years ago.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 5, 2017 12:17:15 GMT
Mr Corbyn has voted against anti-terror legislation seventeen times since becoming an MP in 1983. In 2011, he told a rally organised by the Stop the War Coalition: "I’ve been involved in opposing anti-terror legislation ever since I first went into Parliament in 1983."
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ozboy
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Post by ozboy on Jun 5, 2017 12:41:48 GMT
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r1200gs
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Post by r1200gs on Jun 5, 2017 13:57:42 GMT
Mr Corbyn has voted against anti-terror legislation seventeen times since becoming an MP in 1983. In 2011, he told a rally organised by the Stop the War Coalition: "I’ve been involved in opposing anti-terror legislation ever since I first went into Parliament in 1983."
To honest, some of the anti terror/money laundering/KYC etc rules make me very nervous indeed. We already know that this is being misused. Trouble is, any kind of reservations and you must be pro terrorist, right? Not saying Corbyn was right, just saying that I have reservations about these laws as well. I was recently watching a recording of a hearing in the USA where the defender of an abusive and(in my opinion and that of many others) human rights abusing US law was doing so on the grounds that it was about defending the USA from drugs/human traffickers/gun runners/ money launderers. All very emotive, except the law in question was not written to deal with any of those and does not deal with any of those. The person giving evidence who suggested that repeal would be a meal ticket for gun runners, drugs dealers and money launderers, chief architect of that law, knew that as well. She also knew full well that she was laying the grounds for those who support repeal to be accused of being pro terrorist.
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Steerpike
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Post by Steerpike on Jun 5, 2017 14:53:04 GMT
Mr Corbyn has voted against anti-terror legislation seventeen times since becoming an MP in 1983. In 2011, he told a rally organised by the Stop the War Coalition: "I’ve been involved in opposing anti-terror legislation ever since I first went into Parliament in 1983."
To honest, some of the anti terror/money laundering/KYC etc rules make me very nervous indeed. We already know that this is being misused. Trouble is, any kind of reservations and you must be pro terrorist, right? Not saying Corbyn was right, just saying that I have reservations about these laws as well. I was recently watching a recording of a hearing in the USA where the defender of an abusive and(in my opinion and that of many others) human rights abusing US law was doing so on the grounds that it was about defending the USA from drugs/human traffickers/gun runners/ money launderers. All very emotive, except the law in question was not written to deal with any of those and does not deal with any of those. The person giving evidence who suggested that repeal would be a meal ticket for gun runners, drugs dealers and money launderers, chief architect of that law, knew that as well. She also knew full well that she was laying the grounds for those who support repeal to be accused of being pro terrorist. Abuse of anti-terror legislation is a very real risk, but in my opinion a significantly lower level of risk than no anti-terror legislation. Many folk these days I think will give up a little bit of freedom and (perceived) loss of privacy for a lot more protection and safety, certainly I have changed my views on this subject over the last decade or so. One can but wonder at the temerity of Corbyn criticising the methods and policies of others in this sphere.
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